Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Polycarp66 AT aol.com]

In a message dated 2/8/2003 1:09:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
osbo AT hn.ozemail.com.au writes:

> Yes we do get into theology. Regretably theology has influenced the
> translators to too great an extent. A symple example is the statement found
> in the preface to the RSV page 9 where the transdlators make the remarkable
> statement that to translate the words God LORD Lord etc "is entirely
> inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church" (preface
> page 9)"
> 
> Now to translate these words is inappropriate?
> 
> I ask you!!!!!
> 

I assume this is the passage to which you refer

A major departure from the practice of the American Standard Version is the 
rendering of the Divine Name, the "Tetragrammaton."  The American Standard 
Version used the term “Jehovah”; the King James Version had employed this in 
four places, but everywhere else, except in three cases where it was employed 
as part of a proper name, used the English word LORD (or in certain cases 
GOD) printed in capitals. The present revision returns to the procedure of 
the King James Version, which follows the precedent of the ancient Greek and 
Latin translators and the long established practice in the reading of the  
Hebrew scriptures in the synagogue. While it is almost if not quite certain 
that the Name was originally pronounced "Yahweh," this pronunciation was not 
indicated when the Masoretes added vowel signs to the consonantal Hebrew 
text. To the four consonants YHWH of the Name, which had come to be regarded 
as too sacred to be pronounced, they attached vowel signs indicating that in 
its place should be read the Hebrew word Adonai  meaning "Lord" (or Elohim 
meaning "God"). The ancient Greek translators substituted the word Kyrios 
(Lord) for the Name. The Vulgate likewise used the Latin word Dominus. The 
form “Jehovah” is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the 
consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes 
but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by 
J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. For two reasons the Committee has 
returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version: (1) the word “
Jehovah” does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in 
Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as 
though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was 
discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely 
inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.

I find nothing so extraordinary here.  Names are not usually ** translated ** 
but are transliterated.  In this case we don't know what the original 
pronunciation was (for sure).  I find to reason to be concerned about this.  
As the preface points out, to render it as a name would be to somehow 
indicate that the one named was somehow one among others of the same type to 
be distinguished by a name.  Since Judaism and it's child, Christianity, to 
whom these texts are sacred do not acknowledge "other gods", is it really 
necessary to provide a name?

gfsomsel
>From schmuel AT escape.com  Sat Feb  8 02:19:36 2003
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From: Schmuel <schmuel AT escape.com>
Subject: [b-hebrew] DSS, the brother of Goliath the Gittite, 2 Samuel
  21:19
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Shalom b-Hebrew

Dave Washburn wrote:
>my book "A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls" is now out,
>available from SBL (paperback) and Brill (hardback).

Schmuel
Hopefully, that means we can also ask you technical questions on the issue..  
:-)

>2 Samuel 21:19 (KJV)
>And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines,
>here Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite,
>slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite,
>the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

Does the DSS have this passage, is its reading the same as the Masoretic Text 
?

"brother of" is often considered simply an translational emendation to 
correct a perceived error
 in the Masoretic Text, so I would like to know how the DSS reads.

The parallel passage is .

1 Chronicles 20:5
And there was war with the Philistines again,
and Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite,
the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver�s beam.

I'm told the Vulgate and the socalled LXX had "brother of", but haven't 
checked that,
while the Peshitta does not, it matches the MT.

As far as I know, all extant Masoretic Texts don't have "brother of", and 
Gleason Archer
(and maybe John Haley) offer a textual scenario how it might have been lost.

Shalom,
Schmuel

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