Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk" <peterkirk AT ozemail.com.au>]

Thanks, Liz. The name is actually Peter, or Mr Kirk.

The Logos in John 1 has been interpreted in various ways. Many scholars now
reject close links to Philo's concept of Logos and to similar Hellenistic
concepts. But I don't see why the Logos must be disembodied, it seems that
there is the same kind of ambivalence as with spirits in the Hebrew Bible,
including Samuel's appearance. And there may be a similar ambivalence with
Wisdom in Proverbs 8. Well, we do have the statement "The Logos became
flesh" (John 1:14) which I suppose implies that he/it was formerly
disembodied, but at least it suggests that the author was unhappy with the
idea of a Logos without flesh. We might argue that John is saying that what
was previously an abstract concept of wisdom/Logos, but not a disembodied
spirit, became a being with flesh. Now that might be hard to reconcile with
Christian theology, but that gets us too far off topic.

Peter Kirk
peter.r.kirk AT ntlworld.com
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lisbeth S. Fried
> Sent: 08 February 2003 12:50
> To: Biblical Hebrew
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] [b-hebrew nefarious nefesh
> 
> Hi Kurt,
> Right, I agree with you about the demons, they need a body.
> But it does indicate a separation of body and spirit which
>  does not exist in the OT. I was thinking of the
> preamble to the gospel of John. I also find it in the Wisdom of
> Solomon. Dave mentioned Paul, but I don't know what he refers
> to, unless the poem in Phil.
> God as Logos implies a god without a physical body. This is also
> in Philo. Philo refers to the Logos as the first son of God, Theou.
> Liz
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Kirk [mailto:peterkirk AT ozemail.com.au]
> > Sent: Fri, February 07, 2003 8:18 PM
> > To: lizfried AT umich.edu; 'Biblical Hebrew'
> > Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] [b-hebrew nefarious nefesh
> >
> >
> > Liz, where in the gospel of John or elsewhere in the NT do
> > you find the
> > concept of a disembodied spirit or disembodied god? I ask
> > because I wonder
> > if there is really a difference here between Jewish and early
> > Christian
> > beliefs. The only reference I can think of is to the "unclean
> > spirits" in
> > the gospels, but 1) these are earlier than the gospel of John
> > 2) while they
> > could be expelled from one body, they had to immediately find
> > another body
> > as they could not exist apart from a body. I won't go into
> > more detail only
> > because this tends to go off topic.
> >
> > Peter Kirk
> > peter.r.kirk AT ntlworld.com
> > http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> > > bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lisbeth S. Fried
> > > Sent: 08 February 2003 06:26
> > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] [b-hebrew nefarious nefesh
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > The Hebrew bible does not know of disembodied spirits or
> > > of disembodied gods or God.
> > > I suspect the NT doesn't either until you get to G. John.
> > > Liz
> > > >
> 
> 
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