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  • From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "b- hebrew" <b-hebrew AT franklin.metalab.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: Gen 12:8 Beth'el
  • Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:13:02 -0400


Hi Ian,
When do you date these texts?
When do you date the introduction of YHWH into Canaan?

As for the history of Beth El, I think Nadav Na'aman has done
some work on that. I don't think excavations have revealed either
a Bronze Age or Iron Age sanctuary, or even any cult material.
(There appears to have been a stone age cult site tho.)
It could be that these are under the modern city of Beitin, and so
has not been excavated, or it could be that Beitin is not Beth-el.
People have even suggested that Beth-el was a major sanctuary
to YHWH during the Babylonian period, but I do not think there
is archaeological evidence for it.
Perhaps Beitin is not Beth-El.
Liz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Goldsmith [mailto:iangoldsmith1969 AT yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Mon, August 19, 2002 11:58 AM
> To: Lisbeth S. Fried; b- hebrew
> Subject: RE: Gen 12:8 Beth'el
>
>
> Thanks Liz. Good to hear from you.
>
> Doesn't this cause a problem when Ge 31:13 is taken
> into account though?
> "I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the
> pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now
> arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto
> the land of thy kindred."
>
> Would YHWH allow his name to be associated with a
> place of pagan worship? Bethel seems to figure quite
> prominently post Abraham as a place where YHWH is
> worshiped.
>
> This passage seems to make the view even foggier:
> Ge 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the
> place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him,
> when he fled from the face of his brother.
>
> Perhaps I should contemplate two questions.
> 1. Is there assumed a building at the place called
> Bethel?
> 2. Is the God associated with the place YHWH before
> and after Abraham?
>
> Thanks.
> Ian.
>
>
>
> --- "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu> wrote: >
> Good morning.
> > Bet El was a sanctuary to El,
> > and El was worshipped in Canaan and elsewhere
> > long before YHWH came on the scene.
> > Liz
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ian Goldsmith
> > [mailto:iangoldsmith1969 AT yahoo.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Mon, August 19, 2002 10:29 AM
> > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > Subject: Gen 12:8 Beth'el
> > >
> > >
> > > Good Afternoon Ladies/Gentlemen.
> > >
> > > As a thought, what do we know of Bethel - the
> > House of
> > > God?
> > > It is mentioned in Genesis 12:8 and elsewhere, but
> > no
> > > explanation is previously given for its existence
> > that
> > > I can see.
> > >
> > > We know that Abraham called on the name of YHWH,
> > but
> > > Bethel seems to pre-exist Abraham.
> > > Would "beyt" in this instance therefore refer to a
> > > building as it is given as a geographical
> > reference
> > > point?
> > >
> > > If so is this an indicator of structured worship
> > of
> > > YHWH before the patriarchal period going back to
> > the
> > > time of Noah and perhaps to Gen 4:26 Seth and
> > Enosh?
> > > "men began to call on to call on the name of YHWH"
> > >
> > > I'm not suggesting there was a building at this
> > point
> > > (Seth's lifetime), but could there have been one
> > at
> > > Abraham's time associated with the worship of
> > El/YHWH.
> > >
> > > I'm just curious really as to whether or not there
> > > could have been a building given to the worship of
> > > YHWH before Abraham's lifetime.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > > Ian.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Ian Goldsmith.
> > > England.
> > >
> > > Dibrah Torah kilshone bnei-adam
> > > 'The Torah spoke in the language of ordinary men.'
> > > Berakot 31b
> > >
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>
> =====
> Ian Goldsmith.
> England.
>
> Dibrah Torah kilshone bnei-adam
> 'The Torah spoke in the language of ordinary men.'
> Berakot 31b
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
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