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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

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Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption

From: "SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH" <cms AT dragon.com>
To: B-HEBREW AT FRANKLIN.OIT.UNC.EDU
Cc: cms AT dragon.com
Subject: Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:17:12 -1300

>From: MX%"Soshie77 AT aol.com" 17-AUG-2001 06:31:07.99
>To: MX%"b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu"
>Subj: Re: Atonement vs Redemption

> Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:30:27 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Soshie77 AT aol.com
>Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:30:26 EDT
>Subject: Re: Atonement vs Redemption
>To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>Reply-To: Soshie77 AT aol.com

>My biblical Hebrew isn't the best, but from what I do know you seem to be
>confusing the biblical Hebrew mindset with that of the Christian mindset,
>please correct me if I am wrong. Atonement and redemption are two very
>different concepts and mindsets, still often translations use them
>interchangeably. Atonement isn't the same as we think of it today,
>atonement
>was putting one's sins onto something else, eg. sacrifice, that's where we
>get the concept of scapegoat of, so that one may be forgiven. (The eye for
>an
>eye concept follows these lines, often perceived very literally, it really
>mean s that there shall be equal, but not exact, reperation for the wrong
>committed) Redemption....that's difficult to explain. As an example of
>modern day perceptions, In Catholicism, Cathliocs believe that God redeemed
>the world through Jesus. In biblical Hebrew, it's not like that at all.
>Can
>someone help me here? I'm looking for the right words, but can't think of
>them right now.

It's my understanding that redemption is an economic term. When you
pay money to a clerk for an item at the store, you are said to redeem
its value so that the item becomes yours, i.e., that you own the item.
When we sin, we are slaves of sin, but Jesus redeems us so that we
become the property of Jesus, i.e., slaves of Christ. This is why a
priest anoints you with oil by drawing a cross on your forehead and
says, "You are marked as Christ's own forever."

>Angela

In a message dated 8/16/01 1:38:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jwaldrip AT baptists.org writes:

> Can you give me some direction so that I might discover the essential
> distinction between the biblical Hebrew concept of atonement versus
> redemption?
>
> In many works they are portrayed as being virtually the same.
>
>
> John S. Waldrip
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>My biblical Hebrew isn't the best, but from what I do
know you seem to be
 confusing the biblical Hebrew mindset with that of the Christian mindset,
 please correct me if I am wrong.  Atonement and redemption are two
very
 different concepts and mindsets, still often translations use them
 interchangeably.  Atonement isn't the same as we think of it today,
atonement
 was putting one's sins onto something else, eg. sacrifice, that's where
we
 get the concept of scapegoat of, so that one may be forgiven. (The eye
for an
 eye concept follows these lines, often perceived very literally, it
really
 mean s that there shall be equal, but not exact, reperation for the wrong
 committed) Redemption....that's difficult to explain.  As an example
of
 modern day perceptions, In Catholicism, Cathliocs believe that God
redeemed
 the world through Jesus.  In biblical Hebrew, it's not like that at
all.  Can
 someone help me here?  I'm looking for the right words, but can't
think of
 them right now.
 
 Angela
 
 In a message dated 8/16/01 1:38:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 jwaldrip AT baptists.org writes:
 
 
 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Can you give me some
direction so that I might dis
 distinction between the biblical Hebrew concept of atonement versus
 redemption?
 
 In many works they are portrayed as being virtually the same.
 
 
 John S. Waldrip
 </BLOCKQUOTE>
 
 
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</html>

--part1_126.31e8cfa.28ade9d2_boundary--

Cindy Smith I have further observed under the sun that
cms AT dragon.com The race is not won by the swift,
cms AT 5sc.net Nor the battle by the valiant;
cms AT romancatholic.org Nor is bread won by the wise,
Nor wealth by the intelligent,
Me transmitte sursum, Nor favor by the learned.
Caledoni! -- JPS Ecclesiastes 9:11

Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH, 08/17/2001
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Shoshanna Walker, 08/17/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH, 08/17/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Shoshanna Walker, 08/17/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Charles David Isbell, 08/17/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Shoshanna Walker, 08/17/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH, 08/17/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Jonathan D. Safren, 08/18/2001
- RE: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Peter Kirk, 08/18/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Kirk Lowery, 08/18/2001
- Re: Atonement Vs. Redemption, Shoshanna Walker, 08/18/2001