Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk"<peter_kirk AT sil.org>]

You wrote: "In any case, we know that wayyiqtol can be used in 
narrative, to begin an episode, to begin a book, to resume after an 
aside, to open a change of setting or situation, and that's just to 
name a few." Agreed. And it can ALSO be used as a continuation, as in 
the verse from 1 Kings. Your unified field of meaning is a fine goal, 
but it has to account for these continuation cases as well.

Note my ALSO, which makes irrelevant your argument that "there are 
plenty of instances where it can't possibly be a continuation" - which 
I agree with. However, you seem to be arguing from "it is not always a 
continuation" to "it is never a continuation", which is logically 
false. In fact it is clear that WAYYIQTOL signals neither continuation 
nor lack of continuation, but something different. So, in a 
translation, sometimes a period or a paragraph break is appropriate, 
but very often no punctuation is required. Just look at your 
translation of the verse about Shimei. Why did you put in all those 
periods? Because the sense demanded it? Because you were translating 
for a 3-year-old? Or because of your preconceptions about the meaning 
of WAYYIQTOL? Now you may want to define each WAYYIQTOL as a new 
sentence within the structure of Hebrew. But my point is that it does 
not always correspond to a new sentence in good English.

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re[5]: More ?'s about verbs
Author:  <dwashbur AT nyx.net> at Internet
Date:    17/01/2000 19:34


Peter,
> No, Dave, you did not use these terms. Rodney wrote "to start a new
> story, to pick up after some digression in a story", which suggests to 
> me he was thinking of major breaks. You seem to agree with me, against 
> Rodney's suggestion, that these are not signalled by WAYYIQTOL.

I suppose it depends in large measure on how one defines "major 
break."  My working definition of this is a break between 
paragraphs, episodes, volumes, that sort of thing.  Perhaps if you 
offer your definition, we can come up with a good working one that 
we can use as a starting point for further discussion?

> However, in your translation you used full stops (periods), which
> suggests that you had in mind significant breaks. You may not wish to 
> describe these breaks as "major", perhaps you are right.

A period signals a sentence break, nothing more.  At least that's 
how I use it.  Again, I would consider "significant breaks" more 
than just sentence breaks.

But my point
> is that WAYYIQTOL does not express a break of any sort but rather a 
> continuation, and so your translation with full stops is misleading.

But this is precisely what I argue against!  I have yet to see 
conclusive evidence that it expresses "a continuation."  And in fact 
I have shown again and again that there are plenty of instances where 
it can't possibly be a continuation, so I'm afraid I have to suggest 
that you're assuming what you set out to prove here.  If I've missed 
something, please correct me.

> Also you wrote "does this story provide a full acount of usage of the 
> wayyiqtol?  Hardly." I agree with you, but in the context you did seem 
> to be suggesting support for Rodney's point by hinting at another use 
> of WAYYIQTOL in accordance with his suggestion. It is now clear that
> you do not support Rodney's point. Thank you for the clarification.

I must have missed something in what Rodney wrote.  In any case, 
we know that wayyiqtol can be used in narrative, to begin an 
episode, to begin a book, to resume after an aside, to open a
change of setting or situation, and that's just to name a few.  I seek 
a unified field of meaning that accounts for all these variations. 
Sometimes I get the feeling I'm the only one doing so...{pause to
feel sorry for self} :-)


Dave Washburn
http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
Teach me your way, O Lord, and I will walk in your truth; 
give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name.
                                   Psalm 86:11

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