Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Niels Peter Lemche <npl AT teol.ku.dk>]

Jonathan,

first you have to see to which families of Akkadianthe sd>ld change does
apply. I will look up my GAG and also Hühnergard's new grammer when I am
back home. Second you have to find evidence of the connection between the
Chaldeans and the Aramaeans that is older than the first mentioning of the
Chaldeans from the 9th century. Second you have to explain why there is only
references to Chaldeans from the 9th - 8th century from S. mesopotamia and
then you have to hypotheze about an original home in the north. You also
have to posit the old ideas about immigrations. A lot of things to do to
find a alternative place for Ur kasdim. However, I believe this was
originally Cyrus Gordon's idea.

NPL

> ----------
> Fra:  Jonathan D. Safren[SMTP:yonsaf AT beitberl.beitberl.ac.il]
> Sendt:        4. januar 2000 11:23
> Til:  Niels Peter Lemche
> Cc:   Biblical Hebrew
> Emne:         Re: Ur Kasdim II
> 
> Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
> 
> > By the way, CANE does not have anything about Arameans before the Iron
> Age
> > (Vol II, the overview of Aramean history and civilization by Paul Dion).
> Nor
> > does Liverani, Stora (1988), nor Kuhrt, The Ancient Near East, 1995.
> 
> [JDSafren] True, that is what I claimed. The 12th century BCE is the
> beginning of the
> Iron Age.
> 
> > Kuhrt
> > dos not reckon any source mentioning the Chaldeans before the 9th
> century
> > (but says that they probably were in southern Mesopotamia befofre that
> date.
> 
> [JDSafren] I am not talking about Southern Mesopotamia, and am oposed to
> the
> groundless claim that Ur Kasdim was located in Southern Mesootamia.
> The Aramaic-speaking Chaldeans entered Southern Mesopotamia around the
> same time that
> the Aramaic-speaking Arameans entered Syria, It was because of this that
> Babylonia
> slowly went over from Akkadian to Aramean. It is to be concluded that both
> kindred
> peoples had originatedin the same area.
> 
> BTW, you must take into account that in the Bible the Chaldeans are called
> kasdim
> <kasdu, whereas in the Babtlonian inscriptions they are already called
> kaldu - shift
> of $d . ld like the  shift of $t > lt, as in  i$stu > ultu). In other
> words, the
> gentilic kasdim entered the Hebrew vocabulary before the consonantal shift
> had
> occurred, which is, I believe (my GAG is not handy) before NB and NA.
> Sincerely,
> --
> Jonathan D. Safren
> Dept. of Biblical Studies
> Beit Berl College
> Beit Berl Post Office 44905
> Israel
> 
>