Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Ian Hutchesson <mc2499 AT mclink.it>]

Hi, Jonathan.

At 12.58 16/02/99 +0200, you wrote:
>1. Combining the functions of priest and king "as the Hasmoneans did" is
>no evidence for the lateness of Gen. 14 or Ps. 110. The ANE monarch
>often combined functions of priest and monarch. 

We are not dealing with a generic ANE monarch, but with a kingly situation
as portrayed in the chronicle books as not being priests, having their high
priests. Temporal/religious separation is clearly delineated in Zechariah
between Zerubbabel and Yeshua.

>I wrote about such
>priestly functions of the king in the Ugaritic mythological texts way
>back in 1976 in my article "The Image of Kingship in Ugarit Compared to
>the Image of Kingship in Israel", Beth Miqra 21 (Hebrew).
>
>2. El elyon qoneh shamayim wa-aretz - 2nd millennium BCE Hittite texts
>refer to an 'Il qunirsa = qoneh eretz. Sorry I don't have the reference.

I can also show you that the Chinese referred to a religious position as
the "way", but I wouldn't consider it has much to do with the Christian
way, would you? I think you'd need to find a connection for the Hittite
equivalent. I have found one for the Greek.

Incidentally, I just had a quick look at the distribution of elyon and it
is in itself quite interesting: Nb24:16, Dt32:8, 2Sa22:14, several psalms,
Is14:14, Lam3:35,38, Daniel, Hos7:16, 11:7. It is not a list to inspire the
notion that elyon is early either.

>The combination el elyon admittedly appears only in Gen. 14. 

It also appears in the Aramaic of Daniel and in a psalm or two. Can you
date any other usage? Daniel is second century. Ben Sira who uses it is
second century and there are many others. There is no other datable period
that uses el elyon, so probability reigns.

>But the
>divine epithet Elyon can be shown to occur in texts preceding the
>Hasmonean period. 

I have mentioned this subject before and each time someone replies not
about el elyon but simply about elyon. I don't think the difference is
casual. 

>In Is. 14: 14, the king of Babylon is depicted as
>saying, "I will ascend to the top of a cloud, I will be like Elyon". Why
>should a Hasmonean writer want to write a mashal about the king of
>Babylon?

Why should Judith refer to Nebuchadnezzar as the king of Assyria when
everyone knew that he was the king of Babylon? Because the text wasn't
referring to the real Nebuchadnezzar, but to the Seleucid king, who was as
king of Syria also king of Assyria. (This leads to DSS comments about
Asshur as well.)

>Do you want to claim that he is referring to a Seleucid? That
>passage should be dated no longer than the fall of the Neo-Babylonian
>Empire.

I would not be so sure.

>3. Ps. 110 - Evidence from silence is no proof. Has every single verse
>in the Bible been found at Qumran aside from Ps. 110?

In attempting to date documents and ideas, you go with the main chance.
Writings dealing with Melchizedek aggregate to the end of the second
century and later. That's where I look for ps110. I merely responded to
Ken's question of why I assign some texts late.

>4. Isaiah 19: 18. "Seems specifically to allude to the temple of Onias".
>I could, with better justification, claim that it refers to the Jewish
>temple at Elephantine of the late 5th century BCE. 

Unfortunately, no you couldn't. While Elephantine cannot be referred to as
being "in the midst of the land" of Egypt -- it is on the border to the
extreme south (see following verse) --, the current understanding of the
verse is that it refers to On, where the temple of Onias was located.


Ian


>It could even refer
>to some cultic site (unproven) erected by the Judaeans who took refuge
>in Egypt after the assassination of Gedaliah ben Ahiqam (Jer. 43-44).
>But, taken, in context, it doesn't seem to refer to ANY of the above,
>but rather to the Isaianic theology expressed already in Is. 2, in which
>all the nations worship the God of Israel.