Public SourceMage Discussion List

["David Michael Leo Brown Jr." <dmlb2000 AT excite.com>]

>Howdy all,
>
>> But I still don't like cutting the user out of creating the config file
>
>I have just installed linux-new spell after some time again.
>I am still confused. I really do not like it. Sorry I know there was a 
>lot of work on it but I look at it as a user now.
>Some comments:
>
>According to kernel.org: The latest stable version of the Linux kernel 
>is: 2.6.11.11. User probably wants this one.
>According to linux-new spell the LATEST_2_6 is 2.6.11. Of course there 
>is a item LATEST_maintenance_patches (it should be probably only patch, 
>it is only one patch) but user is not interested in some patches. He/she 
>just wants to use the latest stable version. IMHO, this should be placed 
>on the main screen.

A couple of things:
1) every other major patch (ck ac as cko) all patch against the 2.6.11 not the
2.6.11.11 so I can make the 2.6.11.11 the "LATEST_2_6" but then users wouldn't
see any patches for the kernel because many of the major patches don't apply
to the 2.6.11.11 kernel.

2) even the link on kernel.org for the 2.6.11.11 points to a patch against the
2.6.11 kernel.

>I very like the options (check boxes) to chose patches on "old" linux 
>spell. It is great if I see them all in one screen and can very easy 
>select/deselect them.
>With linux-new spell I several times removed my selections and had to 
>make it from scratch.

You didn't have to remake it from scratch, there's a list at the top of the
menu showing you what patches you have selected...

I've made a wiki page for the menu system and how to deal with it...
it's a work in progress but I'd like to get it completed by the end of the 
week.

>From the developer's view it is very demanding/difficult to maintain or 
>update linux-new spell.
>Several new files have to be created, several files should be removed. I 
>know there is some script but I prefer simple solutions.

I don't really think it's demanding or difficult, This will also be included
in the wiki page, I hope it will help maintainers update and keep linux-new 
up-to-date.

>I do not understand why the default answer for "Would you like to have 
>linux-new update your bootloader?" is no.
>Again, users are not interested is some options. Just "sorcery 
>system-updated" should update all system including linux-new and 
>updating bootloader.
>This default answer can cause for example that  the linux kernel 2.8.8 
>is installed but user still use 2.6.10 due to the old lilo.conf.

This can be changed I just put something there when I wrote the query...

>I did not see any message about gpg checking of linux kernel sources.
>linux-new spell should use config from linux spell.

devel linux-new uses the sorcery gpg checking for spells it's new and only in
test sorcery I have to wait till that functionality is in stable before I can
integrate gpg checking in linux-new into test...

>Version of linux-new is still missing on
>http://codex.sourcemage.org/listing.html

I thought I fixed that, What gets used to process the DETAILS file and pull
the version?

Hmmm same thing with the ipw2x00_firmware spells... that spell has a pretty
generic DETAILS file

>Moreover some error:
>Unpacking source file linux-2.6.11.tar.bz2 for spell linux-new.
>/var/lib/sorcery/codex/test/kernels/linux-new/PRE_BUILD: line 52: 
>/var/lib/sorcery/codex/test/kernels/linux-new/info/patches/maintenance_patches/.info:
> 
>No such file or directory

Thanks I forgot to add that to the spell...

>PS:
>Yes, there are users who really do not know what the lilo is, they are 
>not interested in hundreds of options, they do not want to still anwer 
>the same questions, they only want to run "sorcery system-update" and 
>want their system is up-to-date. They have chosen Source Mage because we 
>have up-to-date versions of their favourite programs, that we provide 
>spells which are not included in other distributions, that Source Mage 
>is easier to maintain than binary distros (yes, it is, only "sorcery 
>system-update"). We can not force all our users to study what the lilo 
>is, what is the meaning of hundreds of options of our spells. Users are 
>not interested in it.
>For example, I really recovered the box where the crucial init scripts 
>were disabled. Some questions should be hidden from users.

Yes I know about those kind of uses but I provide defaults for the bootloader
and yeah they don't have to know the inner workings of a lilo.conf or menu.lst
to use linux-new

But there are also the kind of users that want all the customized options in
one spell and don't want to have to make the kernel by hand to get those 
options. They want a flexable yet stable system where they can see what's
going on and know what's going on. They want a specific version of a patch
to go against the appropriate kernel and they don't want the spell to change
or update it's self unless explicitly cast again. However, they also want to
be able to update their kernel dynamically when new kernels of that version
come out. Also, they want to maintain multiple kernel versions and keep them
both up-to-date.


Basically my argument is:
There's many different kinds of users and they all want different things from
a linux spell. I've tried really hard to get everyones needs and wants into 
one spell...
This means a very large and complicated spell, with lots of options. However,
my one major thought from the conception of linux-new has been for the new
user that doesn't know how to or what the kernel is.

- David Brown


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