Developer Only Discussion List

[Rob Verkuylen <rob AT verkuylen.net>]

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For a little end-user perspective:

Why wait with the 1.0 release ? SourceMage is way past the 1.0 stage. From 
where I stand 1.0 means 'Working Code'. Code that others than the original 
maintainer can run without to much trouble.

In case of a distribution that means to me:
- - To have an installer capable of creating a bootable system.
- - Have a basic filesystem with tools.
- - Ability to install/remove/manage packages

Thats basically it. All others are in fact features which come after 1.0
1.0 *stable* doesn't mean it has to run rock solid in a production 
environment. What is our definition of 'stable' ? Stable enough not to crash 
every 24hours, every week, month, year ? Are we giving out SLA's ? 

Looking at the states of Gentoo or Debian were in when they were at 1.0, 
brings tears to my eyes. Debian got 'workable' from 2.0 and only 'recently' 
3.0 is in a state that is truly stable. SourceMage is way past those 
comparably 1.0 poor conditions. I for one installed using the 0.5 ISO and 
also never had to use an ISO again. Just update/upgrade with Sorcery. 
Yes there have been problems most minor some major, but these will exist 
after 
the 1.0 release as well. Thats what devellopment is all about. 

1.0 isn't going to be the 'great landmark' some ppl here seem to think it 
will 
be. It is in fact nothing more than a freeze from current code. 
Are we doing a big marketing campaign? Are we on a budget ? Do we need to put 
in as much features as possible to attract the biggest audience ?
Since all answeres are 'No', this frees us from the commercial style of 
devellopment, which does imply 'yes' to these answers and forces to delay and 
delay. This is Open Source and this frees us from this way of devellopment. 
It would be a shame if we embrace these limitations when we have the ability 
to exploit the true freedom Open Source devellopment gives us.

Don't hold off, go for it! SMGL deserves the 1.0 predicate.
1.0 could also mean an increase in users/developers , since there is a big 
group that stays away from pre-1.0 releases all together.

Rob Verkuylen




On Thursday 05 February 2004 13:15, Hamish Greig wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:34, Eric Schabell wrote:
> > Not everyone has the time or ability to attend meetings... if they go
> > any earlier or later I would not be there. It remains free time we all
> > spend.
>
> Yes that is why I said proxy voting would be accepted. What is not
> acceptable, is deciding not to become involved in decisions, then expecting
> people to revisit the issue later when you are ready, for no good reason.
> As I said, being unhappy with something and offering an alternative is
> different from being bitchy and criticising unconstructively.
>
> > I am looking back on how far this distro has come and it has all
> > happened w/o becoming little generals and treating our developers as
> > children.
>
> I agree we have achieved a lot. I also know that except for a few hardcore
> developers we have had a lot of trouble keeping hold of people. It would be
> beneficial to create a more robust infrastructure and to seed our future
> roadmap with regular achievable goals, which can be discussed and adapted
> by each new group of developers, and will give everyone involved in each
> goal's achievement the boost to morale that this project has been lacking
> for a long time.
>
> > I agree that the problems in a group should be taken care of by the Team
> > Leads. Period. It is up to them, their responsibility.
> >
> > I would rather see Grimoire Leads dealing with Grimoire problems, Web
> > Leads with web/tome, on down the line.
>
> Yes, as ISO lead I will deal with any problems in my team. But each team is
> not a separate entity, it is another limb of the SMGL body. Limbs have to
> function together or the result is crippling. SO all team members should be
> allowed/ encouraged to take an interest in other teams products. A top
> notch sorcery will not make up for a seriously flawed stable grimoire or an
> installer that won't boot.
>
> > If I look at the amount of moaning lately I have about had it. We are
> > working towards a 1.0 release this month, nothing more, nothing less. It
> > is an accumulation of work done by past and present developers. It would
> > be better to respect their contributions (how big or how small) and
> > continue to move forward.
>
> One man's moaning is another's warning, I was seeking to reassure
> developers by letting them know we are aware of some problems and that we
> fully intend to restructure and address these concerns after the 1.0
> release (you must have noted I said it was not something to discuss now).
> I don't want to chastise developers and pressure people into submitting
> shoddy work in the rush to 1.0 just because our roadmap says we have to
> release 1.0 on the 31st of February 2004. Our goal is our first *stable*
> release, not just *another* release.It should be a landmark, but if you
> don't care about it's stability or functionality we can run a sed script on
> 0.8.0 (the one with the simpleinit bug) and call it 1.0 and be done with
> all the fuss.
>
> > Let's try to put our energy into existing bugs, problems within your own
> > Teams, etc... and get 1.0 out on time. I do not want to hear any excuses
> > about delaying because "wouldn't it be great to have <fill in your
> > favorite missing functionality> in too...". No! We have all agreed on
> > the roadmap, we ARE going to release 1.0 this month (or a bit later if
> > there is a really good reason).
>
> My energy is well directed, I have just spent almost a full day fixing
> 0.9.1 ISO for release. I will continue my work over the next month, have no
> fear of that.
>
> > Now come on team, let's quit wasting all this energy (30+ mails on
> > lists each day I am getting the last week or so) on the little things we
> > can live with, and change the things we need to (see bugzilla). There is
> > plenty of time post-1.0 to move your Teams in any direction you wish.
> >
> > This is a great distro and I have worked on it a long time... it is time
> > for 1.0, whether we are as ready as another distro is besides the point,
> > we are more than ready (I have never had to reinstall a machine with
> > SMGL... EVER! Bet you can't say that to me about RH/Mandrake/<fill in
> > your distro>
> >
> > Please let's point all our noses into the same direction, towards 1.0
> > release this month?
> >
> > erics
>
> I think this is a great distro too. I am having a lot of problems lately
> though, I have spent whole days recovering from some recent problems, only
> to have another problem hose the system all over again. I don't wish to
> compare our list of features to those of any other distro, I just want our
> distro to be stable, and truly deserving of the title "1.0" when we do
> release it.
>
> Hamish
>
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