Permaculture Information Web

[Heide Hermary <heide.hermary AT gaiacollege.ca>]

Chad Knepp wrote:

>  o Since we only have plants at the moment, how should we represent
>    relationships with non-plant elements (animals)?
>  
There are not just animals, but microbes as well, and they can be 
antagonistic (as in diseases, pests, etc.), or synergistic, as in 
mycorrhizae, nitrogen fixing bacteria, pollinators, etc..  Knowing the 
specific species involved in all relationships would be helpful, 
wherever that is possible.  For instance not all nitrogen fixing plants 
form relationships with the same species of basteria. Most plant 
diseases and pest are very finnicky about their diet (i.e. the plants 
they care to eat).  I think if we want to go beyond current concepts we 
can start right here, by treating all of these as equals and  partners 
to their relationships

>  o What sorts of information should a relationship have?  Things
>    like: A list of plants contained in the relationship.  One [or more]
>    word[s] that describe[s] the relationship.
>  
See above. So much more information is needed

>  o Should relationships be owned? editable? moderateable?
>  
Considering how little information we currently have about these, people 
should not be restricted from entering information.  I am questioning 
the need to "own" a relationship between organisms.  I see this more 
like a huge multidimensional web, where different organisms have many 
different relationships with many other organisms. Thus specific 
relationships don't need to be defined per se, they either are or aren't.

For instance, a plant can have many pollinators. Would you define the 
relationship as "pollination", or as a relationship between 2 
organisms.  In case of the latter, the relationship can actually be 
multi-dimensional (such as a plant providing nectar to ladybugs that 
come and feed on aphids, or whatever).

I don't know if that makes sense.

>  o What's the difference between a quality/attribute and a
>    relationship?  For example is nitrogen fixing a relationship or an
>    attribute?  What about alleopathic (sp?) properties?
>  
I already talked about the nitrogen fixing relationships.  Allelopathic 
compounds are products produced by plants, not necessarily attributes 
(unless we want to take the human centered perspective here).  As such 
they are used to regulate the plant's relationships (i.e. protect itself 
from predators, competitors, etc., BUT they may also and simultaneously 
be used to encourage other organisms! -). Who knows if we can ever 
understand all that, it is sooo complex, but it would be useful for the 
database to NOT limit the evolution of our understanding.

>  o What's the difference between a comment and a relationship?
>  
A comment might define or describe the relationship.

>  
>  o How is a relationship different from a natural plant community?
>  
Relationships are specific arrangements between organisms, a natural 
plant community is only one manifestation.  In  reality those plants 
have relationships with all kinds of other organisms, including insects, 
animals, microbes.  How detailed do you want to get?

Cheers, Heide

> Also the techie folks on the list can feel free to chime in with
> suggested schema (relational/SQL stuff).  Remember different
> relationships are probably going to be one-to-one, one-to-many,
> many-to-one, and many-to-many.
>
>