permaculture

[christopher nesbitt <christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org>]

My last word: He offered no solutions. He just threw rocks. Easy to do.
Bravo. Well done.

_____________________________

Christopher Nesbitt


Maya Mountain Research Farm

San Pedro Columbia, Toledo

PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo

BELIZE,

Central America


www.mmrfbz.org
www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 12:59 AM, christopher nesbitt <
christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org> wrote:

> *"Cris, it sounds like you're doing a lot to address equity. Can you be
>> doing more? Yes. The video for example, yeah, you did the best you could at
>> the time, but do we have a need in the permaculture movement to address the
>> gaping hole of cultural appropriation? Yes. What if your email wasn't about
>> resistance, but about how we make it more possible to do less
>> appropriation?*
>>
>
> Seriously? WHAT GAPING HOLE? Where do i find it? Installing photovoltaic
> systems in schools, clinics and community centers, is that appropriation?
> Designing and installing modified composting toilets from USAID design from
> 1965, is that cultural appropriation? Photovoltaic systems for community
> level water pumping, benefitting over 1000 people and creating the water
> boards to run them, thats appropriation? Food on 900 plates for elderly
> people last year, is that cultural appropriation? 170 Belizean graduates of
> full 72 hour PDCs. Is that cultural appropriation? Working with Maya
> farmers to creat a agroforestry manual based on te work I have don for the
> last 29 years, do you think that is cultural appropriation?
>
> This guy personally attacked a video we made as a way to spread
> information to farmers in Belize, most of whom have access to cell phone
> data, saying "*To put it bluntly, this is appropriation of knowledge". *That
> is beyond stupid. It is willfully and enthusiastically uninformed. If he is
> stupid enough to say that, after allegedly watching the video, when it is
> demonstrably untrue, I cannot help him. His problems of understanding and
> comprehension are much deeper than I have time to assist him with.. Maybe,
> just... maybe, that's why I was resistant. If you, still, think I need to
> address his clueless accusation of cultural appropriation, or see any in my
> work, I can't help you, either.
>
> If you see "appropriation" where there was none, there is nothing to be
> gained by engaging in this conversation, further.
>
> I have work to do. Enjoy your self flaggelating self righteous
> masturbation.
>
> I bow out of the conversation.
>
> _____________________________
>
> Christopher Nesbitt
>
>
> Maya Mountain Research Farm
>
> San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
>
> PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
>
> BELIZE,
>
> Central America
>
>
> www.mmrfbz.org
> www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm
>
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I guess I don't see racism as a permaculture problem. I see it as a human
>> problem, with a huge gradient of layers. And I didn't see that article as
>> being useful to dealing with it. It just seemed a shoddy lambast of
>> permaculture in a context I've been working in so I spoke up to ask some
>> more detailed questions. And some of those questions were about cultural
>> appropriation, which nobody bit on. I'm guessing very few want to have
>> this
>> conversation, or feel safe doing so, so I'm at least glad we're having it.
>> We can agree to disagree that Tobias article was on point. And we can
>> agree
>> on the rest, though we may have different approaches toward the work.
>>
>> I'm aware permaculture can be perceived as elitist and a white space, but
>> saying so does discredit a whole lot of people of color who have made big
>> contributions and apply it in their work (whom I credit and showcase their
>> work constantly), though most as far as I can tell could care less about
>> the "movement" part of permaculture, because most that I know are busy in
>> another movement that is a lot more on point when it comes to ending
>> oppression. There's this tendency in permaculture for it to be about
>> everything and for everybody and the truth is nothing is like that. The
>> shoe doesn't always fit. Most people of color I talk to in my city don't
>> have time for it. They belong to other communities of activism that meet
>> their needs better. So be it. I'm not gonna tell them they really need
>> this
>> permaculture thing that I find particular value in. Their trying to
>> prevent
>> the police from killing their neighbor, and being hired by the police
>> department to train their officers, or running for office, or just pissed
>> off in the street. I ask how I can help them in their movement not the
>> other way around. We're dealing with different contexts. It's okay. I'm
>> moving on. I have work to do.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:34 PM, Kelda Lorax <kelda@riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Jason, regarding the basics of white privilege, etc take a moment and
>> see
>> > how I'm addressing everyone who's chimed in on this topic. I admit I'm
>> > writing as a summary and not addressing point per point for everyone.
>> Since
>> > you are more trained in anti-racism work than others why didn't you call
>> > out white fragility instead of me? Regardless of defensive emotions, us
>> > permaculturists have a lot of work to do addressing cultural
>> appropriation.
>> > I'm really interested in the solutions and we can't get there if those
>> of
>> > us who see the problem are not speaking up. You may have been more
>> gentle
>> > than me, but if it was so gentle that I didn't recognize it as a
>> 'calling
>> > in' then it might need to be a bit more blunt.
>> >
>> > Tobias critique is not even the most seering towards permaculture that
>> > I've seen. But it's as good place as any to start.
>> >
>> > Lawrence, I appreciate your enthusiasm and could say a lot more. But
>> maybe
>> > for anyone interested in addressing their own racism, this is a really
>> > useful perspective that's much gentler than I can be:
>> > http://nonprofitwithballs.com/2016/08/flossing-and-the-denta
>> > l-hygiene-paradigm-of-race-discourse/
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Kelda
>> >
>> > On 2017-04-30 13:01, Lawrence London wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Kelda Lorax <kelda@riseup.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am quite racist, in the sense that I have unbidden racist things pop
>> >>> into my mind and thus I scrutinize my mind heavily.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> What a unique and important topic to bring up. Outstanding. I now see
>> >> where
>> >> you are coming from.
>> >> Maybe we can explore this. I said previously that when such unwanted
>> >> neural
>> >> energies burden my as I make my way through each day I respond by
>> thinking
>> >> about the Australian Aborigines and their contribution to mankind and
>> that
>> >> they hold the keys to one living in harmony with Nature or rather Gaia.
>> >> Poof, racist thoughts gone. If only I had known how to do that from
>> age 1
>> >> to age 40. A related story from my time growing up in a university
>> town.
>> >> There was a black gentleman who lived nearby whose brother was a stone
>> >> mason. George Baldwin was a gardener by profession and an eccentric
>> fellow
>> >> of small stature. He did yard work and landscape maintnance in
>> >> neighborhoods mostly occupied by university faculty members and their
>> >> neighbors. He talked to the plants. He was such a skilled
>> horticulturist
>> >> that he became
>> >> the famous botanist WC Coker's (Coker-Totten "Trees of the Southeastern
>> >> United States") favorite gardener. That was a real honor for him.
>> >> He worked for my parents and other people in the neighborhood.
>> Sometimes
>> >> he
>> >> would come to work and after a while disappear for hours.
>> >> A search would find him curled up under a bush with a wine bottle. No
>> >> problem. To each, his own. Anyway George seemed to me to be some kind
>> of
>> >> plant guru, distant and elite, his lack of education notwithstanding.
>> >> There
>> >> was something about him and about his work that exuded a mystique about
>> >> the
>> >> Earth' landscape, the world of plants what left a lasting impression on
>> >> me.
>> >> At age 40 I became a landscape contractor and later moved to farmland
>> and
>> >> entered the world of natural gardening and permaculture. So, there you
>> go.
>> >> instead of racist thoughts popping into my mind I have memories of
>> George,
>> >> a supreme steward of the Earth I was graced to have known and
>> benefitted
>> >> from.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Not because I want to oppress but because I no longer want to be the
>> >>> oppressor. If you think it's because I Want to think people of color
>> are
>> >>> lesser, than you don't understand my meaning.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> No, I did not think that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On a gentler note, my husband and I were talking about this whole
>> string
>> >>> and he said "Well, everyone feels defensive at first"
>> >>> -spoken from a man who was Seriously Annoyed every time I pointed out
>> how
>> >>> racist he is, but now looks for it himself and helps other white
>> people
>> >>> see
>> >>> theirs.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> Well done, Kelda!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
>> >> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
>> >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>> >>
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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