permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

Hi Ben I agree with the comment about modern agriculture being
disconnected. This is issue had been debated similarly previously in this
subject by Toby Hemenway. And, it is a struggle to maintain connections
with nature and good quality natural foods for the values that they offer.
There are many levels to that specific debate.From the extreme at one end
to the totally artificial art the other. And, we can all learn from "Super
Size Me". Where is the moderate mean ?

As far as "New Age" terms and all the other interpretations mentioned. This
subject is far from new age. Many years ago people were burnt at the stake
for talking about it. I never mentioned saints and angels. Nor did I
suggest any religious belief or faith based terminology. Like Scott Pittman
suggests...even old dogs can learn something if we keep an open mind. I
have and also have experienced the positive results first hand.

Steve Hart

On 4 June 2015 at 08:40, Ben Martin Horst <ben.martinhorst@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
> To me it is problematic to dismiss techniques like aquaponics as "not
> connected to the earth." While I have a vague sense as to what you mean,
> one could easily make the same statement about all agricultural techniques.
> It isn't a precise enough criticism for me.
>
> Further, I have to admit that I cringe to hear esoteric terms like "etheric
> and astral energies" thrown about as if they are factual categories. While
> I firmly believe that there are aspects of our universe that cannot be
> explained within a rationalist framework, I simply do not see how it
> furthers discussions about permacultural practice to throw around New Age
> terms. It makes no more sense to me than it would if someone were to talk
> about the intervention of saints and angels in permaculture practice. I
> firmly support anybody's right to their own religious beliefs, but to throw
> faith-based terminology around as something that contributes meaningfully
> to broader permaculture discourse seems misguided.
>
> -Ben
> On May 31, 2015 10:16 PM, "Steve Hart" <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jason..great to hear spring has been goood. My argument all along with
> > aquaponics and hydroponics similarly is that it is still an artificial
> > system if it is not connected directly to the earth. This direct
> connection
> > is critical for us to receive many if not all the nutrients our body
> needs
> > for good if not optimal health. It is within dimensions greater than just
> > simple food elements of vitamins sugars and minerals it is in micro
> > nutrients etheric and astral energies as well as electromagnetic values.
> If
> > the body is missing out on these which are most often in micro
> measurement
> > our health falters.
> >
> > This connection with the earth and natural water can not be imitated.
> This
> > also applies to the multitude of foods that we eat that live in water. eg
> > watercress fish etc etc etc.
> >
> > Therefore it is also difficult for me to consider any value in any such
> > systems no matter where they are built, desert, damaged land, roof tops
> > wherever, the same applies. Perhaps for the argument we jump on the
> "Beyond
> > Organic" bandwagon and call this "Beyond Permaculture". But, having done
> > several courses with Mollison and other learned first generation pioneers
> > I'm sure that such view is clearly inherent within Mollison/Holmgren
> > Permaculture so there is no need to go beyond. It is inherent..Steve Hart
> >
> > On 1 June 2015 at 16:57, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know I'm late to this...been a busy spring, but anyone looking for a
> > good
> > > example of aquaponics can go to the link below. Flourish Farm is one of
> > the
> > > microenterprises within the Growhaus in Denver. It's the most
> productive
> > > and flourishing aquaponics system I've ever seen. I see it all times of
> > the
> > > year and it totally out produces indoor soil growing, and the
> neighboring
> > > hydroponics system (not the same as aquaponics). Best of all, their
> > > criteria for using the technique is right...food desert...polluted
> > > soils...repurposed building infrastructure. While it is not a fully
> > closed
> > > loop system, there are some loops being closed, which is the purpose of
> > > closing loops...to provide a means to understand energy flow. The
> > > educational yield of that alone is likely the greatest product of the
> > > system, which makes it an open system, which is infinitely more
> > > regenerative than anything described as closed.
> > >
> > > http://www.coloradoaquaponics.com/flourish-farms
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > www.realearthdesign.com
> > >
> > > 720-496-9744
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list
> > info:
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> > > message archive mirrors:
> > > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> > > http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> > > http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> > > Google message archive search:
> > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> > > Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> > > How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> > > http://www.ipermie.net
> > > Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> > > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> > > pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> > > while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> integrated
> > > elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> > > nature-compatible
> > > human habitat --
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kia ora
> >
> > [image: Picture]
> > *Steve Hart*
> > *Ecology Architect*
> > *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> > and Systems Ecology.​*
> > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >
> > Permaculture Global Design:
> > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> >
> > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > www.permaculturecollege.eu
> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> >
> > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> > www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list
> info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> > message archive mirrors:
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> > http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> > http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> > Google message archive search:
> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> > Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> > How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> > http://www.ipermie.net
> > Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> > pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> > while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> > elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> > nature-compatible
> > human habitat --
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> message archive mirrors:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>



-- 
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com