permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

Good to hear critical input on such a valuable topic. As Scott says this
debate must lead to developing the whole discussion on STANDARDS.  The
discussion on PC being all aboy design I absolutely agree with . For what
it is in fact is a Design Philosophy developed from a set of Ethics through
Principles. It is not methodology, or a set of recipes.

My Rebuttal LL is more a further clarification or development on my
comments about PRINCIPLES and the example of Hydroponics and Aquaponics.

I support all the original Principles of the original and still the only
qualified PDC curriculum. Offered here:


   - Relative Location – pattern relationships
   - Each element performs many functions
   - Each important function is supported by many elements
   - Efficient energy planning (e.g. zone & sector planning)
   - Maximise use of biological resources
   - Energy cycling
   - Small-scale intensive systems
   - Plant stacking
   - Accelerating succession and evolution
   - Diversity
   - Guilds
   - Edge effect

I add to this the other most used Principle "Work with Nature Not Against
it. " I also often refer to a Mollisonian Cliche, of which there are many
but this is probably one rarely used or heard. "The Bruce Effect: The
further you move away from nature the further you move away from nature". A
cliche largely taking a slight at homosexuality. through the 1970s if you
were a male gay you were comically called Bruce. Ironically Bill Mollisons
christian name happens to be Bruce.


To now reinforce my argument about Hydroponics and Aquaponics as developed
synthetic artificial systems they do not play any part in Permaculture
because they are in fact synthetic and artificial systems that are not
natural. By developing artificial systems we are disconnecting from natural
systems that alienate our bodily functions and do not allow the uptake of
all the natural metabolic functioning that our system requires to maintain
optimal health.  This is very diverse and also requires connections with
layers of science that include the material, spiritual, etheric, astral and
astrological. These are sciences that are still being unravelled today but
valuable integral elements to maintain our connections to maintain optimal
health. These connections are primarily through true natural soil and water
as conveyors of many elements. We can not as of yet immitate such systems
into artificial systems. Although Mollison often spoke of immiatating
nature I take it as building on natural systems through critical
observation  rather than separating them to create artificial systems.

So, if we are to promote the dismantling of the Principles by lazy
intellectual capacity the development of a body to somehow rebuild stronger
guidelines, stronger enhanced curriculum and teaching methodologies  with
standards that will assist the recovery or renaissance of a truer
Permaculture displaying examples and models that actually work then the
debate must continue. I hear such a body was discussed at IPC11 Cuba. Sign
me up whoever is steering this one.


My other comment suggesting that we are all part of the one family rather
than "team" as Scott suggests. Is a reality. The Vlads, of this world and
those others that are abusing the world of Permaculture for their own gains
need to be recognised in this standards campaign as well. Like it or not we
are all part of the one global Permaculture family for all those that have
been introduced and feel like using the word, do. Do we eliminate them by
developing a Geoff Lawton or Darren Doherty franchise. Or a body like that
of the Institute of Architects, or Registered Engineers ? We did attempt
this at IPC4 by the thoughts of a Permaculture Designers Guild. All good
questions that do need continued debate to lead up to IPC12 in London...Is
my point clear LL ? or do we need to organise a PDC in your village by
Larry and Scott ?...Steve Hart










On 29 December 2013 07:05, <permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: IPC11 Musings II (Roberto Sanchez)
>    2. Re: Future Scenarios (Jono Neiger)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:37:05 -0500
> From: "Roberto Sanchez" <roberto.sanchez@fanj.cult.cu>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings II
> To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <004401cf03eb$0b64ff80$222efe80$@fanj.cult.cu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I don?t speaks English, but can read some words.
>
> I want said thanks Scott for your comment about IPC11, are very important
> for us.
>
> Roberto S?nchez
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] En nombre de Scott Pittman
> Enviado el: viernes, 27 de diciembre de 2013 22:38
> Para: 'permaculture'
> Asunto: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings II
>
> This is my second installment of the IPC 11 musings.
>
> Scott Pittman
>
> "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> obsolete"  Buckminster Fuller
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:05:30 -0500
> From: Jono Neiger <neiger@csld.edu>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Future Scenarios
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAM0CCauBRy01NVKO6YWu_DsF0J0N_VXMS8GwW3TmLZehEQMG_w@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> I agree heartily with what you're saying Toby. As far as a movement, I
> rather see the permaculture scene as a "network".
>
> As a network, we're a huge global collection of individuals and
> organizations working in myriad ways to, as you say, build a more
> sustainable (regenerative) and just world. We don't all agree on approach
> and focus. We can align for specific work, share resource, interconnect to
> support each other. Networks are made of nodes and links. We look to
> leverage the fact that we can't do everything and we must rely on others in
> the network doing their piece.
>
> There;s a substantial amount of work thats been done in building networks.
> I attach here one paper on network building, specifically for social
> change.
>
> Jono
>
>
> ******************
> Jono Neiger
> Regenerative Design Group
> www.regenerativedesigngroup.com
>
> Conway School
> Graduate Program in Sustainable Landscape Planning & Design
> www.csld.edu
>
> PINE; Permaculture Institute of the Northeast
> www.northeastpermaculture.org
>
> *Workshops This Winter:*
> ? Whole Farm Design, Advanced Permaculture
> Course<
> http://bigsmallfarm.org/news/whole-farm-design-advanced-permaculture-course-jono-neiger-january-2014/
> >,
> Big Small Farm, Bushnell Florida, January 2014
> ? Advanced Permaculture and Agroforestry, Maya Mountain Research Farm,
> Belize, March, 2014
> ?
> Local Food Enterprise Summit/Financial Permaculture
> Course<http://www.financialpermaculture.com/courses/2014miami>,
> Miami, March 10-14
> ? Urban Permaculture Design Certificate Course, Tampa
> Bay<
> http://www.permacultureguild.us/urban-permaculture-design-course-tampa-bay/
> >
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Thanks for this valuable post, Jason, and for the kind words. You've said
> > something here that I think is crucial:
> >
> > > We have to remember that we're not promoting permaculture for the sake
> of
> > > permaculture*.* We're promoting permaculture as a way for people to
> > > significantly change their lives. Permaculture is not the goal, shifts
> in
> > > the way people think and act is the goal.
> >
> > Amen. I think of permaculturists as the design and implementation arm of
> > the larger sustainability movement. We're here to implement actions,
> > communicate concepts, and even, if I may be so bold, to offer advice, to
> > help achieve a sustainable human culture. We're not here to make
> everyone a
> > permaculturist or to claim certain methods as being or not being "part of
> > permaculture". Permaculture is a process we use toward a much larger end,
> > not a thing in itself. That's why I get mildly frustrated when people
> talk
> > about  their  "permaculture farm" or ask me if I want to "come see my
> > permaculture." I can't actually see permaculture any more than I can see
> > physics or design.
> >
> > Jason also gets to why I don't care if people use the P-word or not. In
> > many cases, calling an activity "permaculture" is off-putting or
> otherwise
> > counterproductive when what we want is a change in behavior and mindset,
> > not membership in "our" movement. Indigenous people living sustainably
> are
> > not permaculturists (I doubt if they are doing zone analysis and teaching
> > the general core model). They're just people living sustainably, and
> that's
> > the goal.
> >
> > And this gets to the heart of why I don't like to see permaculture
> > described as a "movement." In true social movements such as civil or
> > women's rights, or anti-war,  the goal is to achieve exactly what the
> > movement's name states: gaining enforceable rights for a group, or
> ending a
> > war. But the goal of permaculturists, I hope, is not to get everyone to
> > become  "copyrighted" capital P Permaculturists with a PDC certificate on
> > the wall, let alone to pass legislation enforcing permaculture design to
> be
> > applied everywhere. The goal is to bring people around to a whole-systems
> > paradigm so that humans will meet their needs in an ecologically sound
> way.
> > When civil rights legislation was passed and enforced, the civil rights
> > movement of that era disappeared and most of the activists turned to
> other
> > things. When a war ends, that anti-war movement dissipates. And when we
> are
> > all living sustainably, the "sustainability movement" will disappear. A
> > movement is just that: movement of people
> >   toward a behavior, and that movement stops when the behavior becomes
> the
> > norm. But when permaculture is part of society's mindset, the activities
> > known as permaculture design won't end the way the actions of the civil
> > rights movement did. We won't turn to other things. We'll keep on
> designing
> > and teaching the design system, and we'll still call it permaculture.
> >
> > As Larry Santoyo says, some day we will be embarrassed that we had to
> hold
> > classes in something that is so elementary and obvious.
> >
> > Toby
> > http://patternliteracy.com
> >
> >
> > On Dec 26, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Jason Gerhardt wrote:
> >
> > > Toby's "rant" is wonderful!
> > >
> > > I think there are two different ways of viewing/teaching permaculture
> out
> > > there, one is as a series of techniques, and the other is as an
> in-depth
> > > design process. I would just like to add to the conversation that
> viewing
> > > and teaching permaculture as a design process actually changes peoples
> > > lives.
> > >
> > > The techniques focus leads to the all too common student overwhelm of
> > > information (and subsequent disappointment when they find that certain
> > > techniques are totally inappropriate for their site, climate, or
> > whatever).
> > > For example, I could care less if my students can dig a swale after
> > > finishing a PDC with me if they can't properly site a swale (insert any
> > > technique).
> > >
> > > The real revolution of permaculture is in changing peoples lives, and
> > when
> > > people learn to think critically, think in systems, and think about
> > > everything through a lens of the permaculture ethics and principles
> then
> > > they become fundamentally different and changed people. For the better.
> > We
> > > have to remember that we're not promoting permaculture for the sake of
> > > permaculture*.* We're promoting permaculture as a way for people to
> > > significantly change their lives. Permaculture is not the goal, shifts
> in
> > > the way people think and act is the goal.
> > >
> > > One could also say that techniques are easy to sell, whereas processes
> > are
> > > far more difficult to close the deal on. This addresses the perennial
> > > threads of upholding standards and avoiding the commodification of
> > > permaculture. Those of us who think permaculture standards and
> > profiteering
> > > are important issues can best start by talking about permaculture as a
> > > design process, and by practicing that design process enough to where
> it
> > > fundamentally changes how we see, feel, think, and act.
> > >
> > > At best, techniques are fads particular to a place, time, and people.
> > > Design processes are what will actually lead to a more permanent
> culture.
> > >
> > > Humbly suggested,
> > >
> > > Jason Gerhardt
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > PO Box 4355
> > > Boulder, CO 80306
> > > 720-496-9744
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> > elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> > nature-compatible human habitat
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> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 131, Issue 29
> *********************************************
>



-- 
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
Ecology Architect
skype: stevenlawrencehart