permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Lol, Toby. I wish we could hire a few hundred people just to go around 
patiently explaining this type of thing to people who dream up these depraved 
ideas. 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
 From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Highest use for tires?
 
I'd be very careful about large scale mixing of warm ocean water with deeper, 
cooler water. Those of us old enough to remember the Permian Extinction, 
about 250 million years ago, know that a big factor in its wiping out 95% of 
all species and about 85% of all life was the warming of deeper ocean waters. 
Warm water can't hold as much oxygen as cold, so shoving warm water deep into 
the ocean will likely starve a lot of living creatures of oxygen. If we do it 
on a scale large enough to stop hurricanes, that scale will have other 
effects. In the Permian, the climate warmed enough to make the seas anoxic, 
and since most of life was in the sea, most of it died. 

So let's not do this.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Nov 9, 2012, at 7:21 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:

> This is one of those "We must be dominant over and defeat nature - we are 
> at war" solutions. This person likely has no clue of the benefits that 
> hurricanes bring to large swaths of this country. Stopping hurricanes with 
> tires might turn the SE US into a desert!  We get significant amounts of 
> aquifer recharge and rain from hurricanes and tropical storms. Tampa Bay 
> would not support 3 million people without tropical storm and summer storm 
> recharge of aquifers, reservoirs and lakes. Some people always want to 
> control the weather, instead of confronting that maybe putting their 
> multimillion dollar house right ON the beach in the path of hurricanes is 
> not the best move. And maybe if they still want to do that, the need to be 
> prepared to lose the buildings, so that the rest of us  still have rivers 
> flowing in the SE. There are some people out there who actually do have 
> that attitude - I've met quite a few of them down here in hurricane 
> country. "Yeah, I
 live
> on the beach and sooner or later a hurricane will probably wipe out my 
> house, but I'm really enjoying it meantime."  That is a relatively healthy 
> relationship with hurricanes. 
>  
> Koreen Brennan
> 
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: dylanford <dylanford@optonline.net>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
> Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Re:  Highest use for tires?
> 
> Folks. Though this Guardian article will not be of use to anyone seeking an 
> immediate application for discarded auto tires, I thought it might be of 
> general interest to the permaculture community.  dylan
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/04/stephen-salter-tyre-hurricane-sandy
> The man who would stop hurricanes with car tyres
> Devastating tropical storms of the kind that battered the US last week 
> could be weakened and rendered less deadly using a simple and cheap 
> technology based on a surprising component – old car tyres.
> One of Britain's leading marine engineers, Stephen Salter, emeritus 
> professor of engineering design at Edinburgh university and a global 
> pioneer of wave power research, has patented with Microsoft billionaires 
> Bill Gates and Nathan Myhrvold the idea of using thousands of tyres lashed 
> together to support giant plastic tubes which extend 100m deep into the 
> ocean.
> 
> Wave action on the ocean surface would force warm surface water down into 
> the deeper ocean. If non-return valves were used, he says, the result would 
> be to mix the waters and cool the surface temperature of the ocean to under 
> 26.5C, the critical temperature at which hurricanes form.
> 
> According to Salter, who has written to the government's chief scientific 
> officer setting out his scheme, harnessing energy from the waves to cool 
> the surface temperature of the ocean makes ecological sense. The naturally 
> working pumps would be located in "hurricane alley", the warm corridor in 
> the Atlantic through which the most damaging storms typically develop and 
> pass.
> 
> Salter claims that the hydrological problems have been solved but that 
> research funding is urgently needed. "If you can cool the sea surface, you 
> would calm the hurricanes. I estimate you would need about 150-450 of these 
> structures. They would drift around and send out radar signals so that no 
> one would collide with them," he said.
> 
> The idea of what is now known as the "Salter Sink" was first presented to 
> the US government in 2007 at a post-Katrina US Homeland Security meeting on 
> hurricane suppression. It was picked up and developed by Intellectual 
> Ventures, a Seattle-based new tech company run by Myhrvold and backed by 
> Gates which buys and licenses patents and inventions.
> 
> "The Salter Sink concept is delightfully simple and singularly gargantuan," 
> the company said in a statement posted on its website . "It has captured 
> our imagination here in the lab. We have done some experiments and 
> computational modelling work to validate this idea, but a lot more research 
> needs to be done by experts in related fields such as climate science and 
> oceanography, and we need partners to pursue the project further."
> 
> Research into hurricane suppression is considered urgent by the US 
> government because seven of the 10 costliest hurricanes to hit the United 
> States have struck since 2004. Hurricane Sandy has caused approximately 
> $30bn of damage, taking the economic costs of hurricanes in the US and 
> Caribbean since 2002 to more than $200bn.
> 
> Salter's research is unlikely to be funded by the British government, which 
> is traditionally shy of paying for "blue sky" marine technologies, and 
> Salter's own wave devices in particular.
> 
> In 1982 Salter invented the idea of a mechanical "duck" which bobbed on the 
> ocean and generated electricity. But the government shut down the UK Wave 
> Energy programme, arguing that his invention would be too expensive to 
> develop further.
> 
> It emerged later that civil servants in the nuclear power division of the 
> energy department had "miscalculated" by a factor of 10 the estimated cost 
> of energy production, possibly setting back British wave energy research by 
> 20 years.
> 
> Salter, with John Lathan of the US National Centre for Atmospheric 
> Research, has also developed the idea of using hundreds of ships spraying 
> very fine seawater droplets high into the sky to reflect sunlight and thus 
> counter global warming and suppress hurricanes. The UK government was asked 
> to assess the technology research, but declined to back it financially.
> 
> Hurricane suppression ideas go back more than 100 years but attempts have 
> mostly proved tragicomic, said Jim Fleming, author of a new history of 
> geo-engineering. Ideas have included setting up rows of cannon on the 
> Florida coast to shoot them down; using laser beams from space; and 
> "seeding" them with silver iodide.
> 
> The results have proved at best uncertain. One hurricane "manipulated" by 
> the US government in the 1940s veered off course and struck Georgia, 
> causing $20m of damage and killing two people. In 1962, just after the 
> Cuban missile crisis, Fidel Castro complained that the US had "modified" a 
> hurricane which, remarkably, lingered over the island for four days after 
> exercising a U-turn.
> 
> Many countries, including the US and Russia, have tried to militarise 
> weather research, trying to divert hurricanes and storms into the path of 
> their enemies.
> 
> Salter was inspired to invent his device after seeing the damage wrought by 
> Katrina.
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On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Frances and David <fdnokes@hotmail.com>wrote:

> I love the sound of your human powered inventions!
> Also, all the ideas for re-using tires.
>

I was also thinking of stacking them above ground over footings holes as
concrete forms for steel reinforced high strength outdoor concrete piers
for buildings.
You could then spray them with waterproof high strength foam insulation
(they do it to insulate elevated water towers) or coat them with
fiberglass-laced high strength portland
cement stucco (equivalent to 6000 PSI concrete or better). They could then
be painted with some chemical resistant impermeable paint
to keep the tires from outgassing or leaching toxins, epoxy, butyl rubber
or other or maybe wrap the column of tires with UV-resistant butyl rubber
pond/landfill liner or roof
waterproofing sheets cut to size, wrapped and glued to the exteriors of the
columns. Recycled roofing sheets or pond or landfill liners could be
recycled this way,
protect the environment from recycled tires. I don't know if this is a
feasable strategy or would ultimately prevent the tires from becoming an
environmental liability.


> My original meaning had been the idea of somehow breaking them down and
> using them in a rebuilding of new tires?
>

Well they used to make recaps, why not now?