permaculture

["Frances and David" <fdnokes@hotmail.com>]

Lovely wit!
(Those of us old enough to remember the Permian Extinction)

I've been meaning to look up Kurt Vonnegut's brilliant plot point of 
Ice-nine. It changed the melting point of ice: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice-nine, thereby creating a planet destroying 
molecule~
It seemed such a fitting symbol of the potential destructive power of 
{science}.
I also find it interesting to note our dependence on the quality of ice 
being lighter than water as a life preservation factor, allowing the waters 
to flow beneath the ice in winter.

Frances


-----Original Message----- 
From: Toby Hemenway
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:02 AM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Highest use for tires?

I'd be very careful about large scale mixing of warm ocean water with 
deeper, cooler water. Those of us old enough to remember the Permian 
Extinction, about 250 million years ago, know that a big factor in its 
wiping out 95% of all species and about 85% of all life was the warming of 
deeper ocean waters. Warm water can't hold as much oxygen as cold, so 
shoving warm water deep into the ocean will likely starve a lot of living 
creatures of oxygen. If we do it on a scale large enough to stop hurricanes, 
that scale will have other effects. In the Permian, the climate warmed 
enough to make the seas anoxic, and since most of life was in the sea, most 
of it died.

So let's not do this.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Nov 9, 2012, at 7:21 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:

> This is one of those "We must be dominant over and defeat nature - we are 
> at war" solutions. This person likely has no clue of the benefits that 
> hurricanes bring to large swaths of this country. Stopping hurricanes with 
> tires might turn the SE US into a desert!  We get significant amounts of 
> aquifer recharge and rain from hurricanes and tropical storms. Tampa Bay 
> would not support 3 million people without tropical storm and summer storm 
> recharge of aquifers, reservoirs and lakes. Some people always want to 
> control the weather, instead of confronting that maybe putting their 
> multimillion dollar house right ON the beach in the path of hurricanes is 
> not the best move. And maybe if they still want to do that, the need to be 
> prepared to lose the buildings, so that the rest of us  still have rivers 
> flowing in the SE. There are some people out there who actually do have 
> that attitude - I've met quite a few of them down here in hurricane 
> country. "Yeah, I live
> on the beach and sooner or later a hurricane will probably wipe out my 
> house, but I'm really enjoying it meantime."  That is a relatively healthy 
> relationship with hurricanes.
>
> Koreen Brennan
>
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: dylanford <dylanford@optonline.net>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Re:  Highest use for tires?
>
> Folks. Though this Guardian article will not be of use to anyone seeking 
> an immediate application for discarded auto tires, I thought it might be 
> of general interest to the permaculture community.  dylan
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/04/stephen-salter-tyre-hurricane-sandy
> The man who would stop hurricanes with car tyres
> Devastating tropical storms of the kind that battered the US last week 
> could be weakened and rendered less deadly using a simple and cheap 
> technology based on a surprising component – old car tyres.
> One of Britain's leading marine engineers, Stephen Salter, emeritus 
> professor of engineering design at Edinburgh university and a global 
> pioneer of wave power research, has patented with Microsoft billionaires 
> Bill Gates and Nathan Myhrvold the idea of using thousands of tyres lashed 
> together to support giant plastic tubes which extend 100m deep into the 
> ocean.
>
> Wave action on the ocean surface would force warm surface water down into 
> the deeper ocean. If non-return valves were used, he says, the result 
> would be to mix the waters and cool the surface temperature of the ocean 
> to under 26.5C, the critical temperature at which hurricanes form.
>
> According to Salter, who has written to the government's chief scientific 
> officer setting out his scheme, harnessing energy from the waves to cool 
> the surface temperature of the ocean makes ecological sense. The naturally 
> working pumps would be located in "hurricane alley", the warm corridor in 
> the Atlantic through which the most damaging storms typically develop and 
> pass.
>
> Salter claims that the hydrological problems have been solved but that 
> research funding is urgently needed. "If you can cool the sea surface, you 
> would calm the hurricanes. I estimate you would need about 150-450 of 
> these structures. They would drift around and send out radar signals so 
> that no one would collide with them," he said.
>
> The idea of what is now known as the "Salter Sink" was first presented to 
> the US government in 2007 at a post-Katrina US Homeland Security meeting 
> on hurricane suppression. It was picked up and developed by Intellectual 
> Ventures, a Seattle-based new tech company run by Myhrvold and backed by 
> Gates which buys and licenses patents and inventions.
>
> "The Salter Sink concept is delightfully simple and singularly 
> gargantuan," the company said in a statement posted on its website . "It 
> has captured our imagination here in the lab. We have done some 
> experiments and computational modelling work to validate this idea, but a 
> lot more research needs to be done by experts in related fields such as 
> climate science and oceanography, and we need partners to pursue the 
> project further."
>
> Research into hurricane suppression is considered urgent by the US 
> government because seven of the 10 costliest hurricanes to hit the United 
> States have struck since 2004. Hurricane Sandy has caused approximately 
> $30bn of damage, taking the economic costs of hurricanes in the US and 
> Caribbean since 2002 to more than $200bn.
>
> Salter's research is unlikely to be funded by the British government, 
> which is traditionally shy of paying for "blue sky" marine technologies, 
> and Salter's own wave devices in particular.
>
> In 1982 Salter invented the idea of a mechanical "duck" which bobbed on 
> the ocean and generated electricity. But the government shut down the UK 
> Wave Energy programme, arguing that his invention would be too expensive 
> to develop further.
>
> It emerged later that civil servants in the nuclear power division of the 
> energy department had "miscalculated" by a factor of 10 the estimated cost 
> of energy production, possibly setting back British wave energy research 
> by 20 years.
>
> Salter, with John Lathan of the US National Centre for Atmospheric 
> Research, has also developed the idea of using hundreds of ships spraying 
> very fine seawater droplets high into the sky to reflect sunlight and thus 
> counter global warming and suppress hurricanes. The UK government was 
> asked to assess the technology research, but declined to back it 
> financially.
>
> Hurricane suppression ideas go back more than 100 years but attempts have 
> mostly proved tragicomic, said Jim Fleming, author of a new history of 
> geo-engineering. Ideas have included setting up rows of cannon on the 
> Florida coast to shoot them down; using laser beams from space; and 
> "seeding" them with silver iodide.
>
> The results have proved at best uncertain. One hurricane "manipulated" by 
> the US government in the 1940s veered off course and struck Georgia, 
> causing $20m of damage and killing two people. In 1962, just after the 
> Cuban missile crisis, Fidel Castro complained that the US had "modified" a 
> hurricane which, remarkably, lingered over the island for four days after 
> exercising a U-turn.
>
> Many countries, including the US and Russia, have tried to militarise 
> weather research, trying to divert hurricanes and storms into the path of 
> their enemies.
>
> Salter was inspired to invent his device after seeing the damage wrought 
> by Katrina.
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