permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Hm, burdock root is an interesting idea I would not have thought of. I am 
trying to take a look at some of the research out there on toxicity, have not 
found much thus far. How long do they off gas? What do they off gas/leach? 
What remedies? I wish there were more waste stream experts in permaculture or 
at least hooked up to it. We need to be able to handle and design with this 
stuff in mind - it is such a huge part of our environment. We can say that 
they are too toxic for us, but they are here - they're going somewhere. There 
is no "away", so we need to do something with them, and the more we 
understand what our options are, the better choices we'll make. I hear you on 
covering them with earth, that is my predilection as well. I'm sure there are 
some people into this out there that I don't know about! Trying to flush them 
out here :-) 


________________________________
 From: Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Highest use for tires?
 
I'm with Lawrence in that they exude toxins.  perhaps a large mycelium
layer cake which is innoculated with Oyster mushrooms.  definitely test any
produce for heavy metals.

I prefer not to use them if I don't have to.  If I had to, I would look at
options like windbreak fences with innoculated woodchip foundation to
sponge up and metabolize any leachate and perhaps even woodchip filling and
covering to keep them from collecting water and breeding misquitos.

other than that, something that immobilizes them away from water and UV
sunlight (similar to an earthship) would be on my list (inside a cob wall?)
all of these are fairly labor intensive, but if you have to use
them...what is the cost balance with paying to get rid of them?

this is purely ideas, no direct research or literature refs.

cheers,
Neil

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:23 AM, venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>wrote:

> On 11/7/2012 10:45 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> > I have an opportunity to repurpose quite a few tires and am looking
> > for any and all data on the highest use for that particular
> > commodity, besides earthships (which I am familiar with, I'm
> > researching other options as well). Who do list members know that
> > would be the most knowledgeable about this? What experiences do you
> > have with repurposing tires?
>
> I always thought they exuded toxic substances. If not then an excellent
> use would be to grow burdock root in them. Stack them 2 to 5 high
> depending on size of tire, fill them with dirt. Plant the burdock SEEDS
> in them. When ready for harvet just take a prybar and separate the
> tires, empty the dirt in them and pull the roots out completely without
> breaking them. Wild grown burdock (the wild variety) has high economic
> value. t can become a staple in anyone's dirt, tastes good and is highly
> nutritional.
>
> LL
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Highest use for tires?
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On 11/7/2012 9:51 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> Hm, burdock root is an interesting idea I would not have thought of.
> I am trying to take a look at some of the research out there on
> toxicity, have not found much thus far. How long do they off gas?
> What do they off gas/leach? What remedies? I wish there were more
> waste stream experts in permaculture or at least hooked up to it. We
> need to be able to handle and design with this stuff in mind - it is
> such a huge part of our environment. We can say that they are too
> toxic for us, but they are here - they're going somewhere. There is
> no "away", so we need to do something with them, and the more we
> understand what our options are, the better choices we'll make. I
> hear you on covering them with earth, that is my predilection as
> well. I'm sure there are some people into this out there that I don't
> know about! Trying to flush them out here :-)

On eof the owners of Buchi kombucha tea http://drinkbuchi.com/ said they
they grow burdock in Asheville NC on their huge farm in tall beds with
removable sides. At harvest they just knock the sides down and pull the
roots easily. It seemed that this would be a good use for tires; just
separate the stacked layers with a prybar and dirt and roots would fall
out, more or less.


http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/40/1/Tires-and-the-environment.html
"In regard to concerns about chemicals leaching from tires when used in
such a way, it's my understanding that old tires aren't such a problem -
new tires will offgas volatile compounds; but this decreases and stops
over time; while it is in serviceable condition on the vehicle. So when
using tires to grow potatoes, the older the tire the better it would seem"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004565350400760X
"Car tires contain several water-soluble compounds that can leach into
water and have toxic effects on aquatic organisms. Due to tire wear, 10
000 tonnes of rubber particles end up along the Swedish roads every
year. This leads to a diffuse input of emissions of several compounds.
Emissions of polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) are of particular concern.
PAHs are ingredients of the high aromatic oil (HA oil) that is used in
the rubber as a softener and as a filler. The exclusion of HA oils from
car tires has started, and an environmental labeling of tires could make
HA oils obsolete."

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Rubber%20mulch.pdf
"“Non-toxicity” of rubber mulch
Current research at Bucknell University indicates that rubber leachate
from car tires can kill entire aquatic
communities of algae, zooplankton, snails, and fish. At lower
concentrations, the leachates cause
reproductive problems and precancerous lesions. A similar study
exploring the use of tires as artificial
reef substrates also found rubber leachate to negatively affect the
survival of various seaweeds and
phytoplankton. Marine and other saline environments are less sensitive
to tire leachates, however, and the
greatest threat of contamination appears to be to freshwater habitats.
Part of the toxic nature of rubber leachate is due to its mineral
content: aluminum, cadmium, chromium,
copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, sulfur, and
zinc have all been identified in
laboratory and field leachates. If rubber products have been exposed to
contaminants during their useful
lifetime, such as lead or other heavy metals, they will adsorb these
metals and release them as well. Of
these minerals, rubber contains very high levels of zinc – as much as 2%
of the tire mass. A number of
plant species, including landscape materials, have been shown to
accumulate abnormally high levels of
zinc sometimes to the point of death. One USDA researcher who has
studied zinc and other metals in
soils and plant materials for decades strongly believes that ground
rubber should not be used “in any
composting, or in any potting medium, or casually dispersed on
agricultural or garden soils” because of
zinc toxicity. Acidic soils and aquatic systems are particularly
sensitive, since heavy metals and other
positively charged elements are less tightly bound to the soil and more
available to plant and animal
uptake.
Rubber leachates are complex solutions. They include not only the
minerals and organic building blocks
of rubber, but also various plasticizers and accelerators used during
the vulcanizing process. In high
enough concentrations, some of these rubber leachates are known to be
harmful to human health; effects
of exposure range from skin and eye irritation to major organ damage and
even death. Long term
exposure can lead to neurological damage, carcinogenesis, and mutagenesis.
Some of these materials break down quickly, while others are known to
bioaccumulate. One of the more
common rubber leachates is 2-mercaptobenzothiazole, a common accelerator
for rubber vulcanization. In
addition to its known human health concerns, it is highly persistent in
the environment and very toxic to
aquatic organisms: its environmental persistence may cause long-term
damage to aquatic environments
constantly exposed to rubber leachates. Another family of organic
leachates under scrutiny are the
polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). These compounds, used as rubber
softeners and fillers, have been
repeatedly demonstrated to be toxic to aquatic life. PAHs are released
continually into solution, and after
two years in a laboratory test leachates were shown to be even more
toxic than at the study’s inception.
It is abundantly clear from the scientific literature that rubber should
not be used as a landscape
amendment or mulch. There is no question that toxic substances leach
from rubber as it degrades,
contaminating the soil, landscape plants, and associated aquatic
systems. While recycling waste tires is
an important issue to address, it is not a solution to simply move the
problem to our landscapes and
surface waters.
The Bottom Line
• Rubber mulch is not as effective as other organic mulch choices in
controlling weeds
• Rubber mulch is highly flammable and difficult to extinguish once it
is burning
• Rubber mulch is not permanent; like other organic substances, it
decomposes
• Rubber mulch is not non-toxic; it contains a number of metal and
organic contaminants with
known environmental and/or human health effects
For more information, please visit Dr. Chalker-Scott’s web page at
http://www.theinformedgardener.com.";