permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

Cc.: seedkeepers list
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/seedkeepers

I would like to see us start a fruit tree seed exchange program and 
network. I would be very interested in acquiring seeds for trees that 
will reproduce true to form for apple, plum, Sal's orange-grapefruit,
pear, blackberry, raspberry and others. Is anyone interested. I have 
fruiting eleagnus, plum and heirloom blackberry to exchange.

LL

On 2/1/2012 10:19 AM, sals3 wrote:
> I like this thread.  I found that some mangoes grow true to type.  I can't
> spell but they call them pollyembroatic or something like that.  they way I
> tell is that the mango seed that put out more than one tree from the seed
> usually come true to mom.  I live in Santa Barbara and I had lots of grafted
> mango trees that were kill back below the graft from a freeze we had in the
> 90s so now I really prize seedlings because there is no dying below the
> graft and they can come back true.  I know folks that only eat from seedling
> trees and think grafting is not so good.  either the scion grows faster than
> the graft or vice a verse .  I think for money people in stores all buy Hass
> or name brands.  so for money I grow good tasting grafted trees but I also
> love seedlings .  I also have a white peach that has great seedlings .  I
> have a orange grapefruit that is so sweet and comes true to seed so far.
> remember all trees came from seedlings .  I would like to see the list of
> true parent  seed plants.  nothing beats a true seedling with tap root and
> natural growth.  all one and the same plant .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "loren luyendyk"<loren@sborganics.com>
> To: "Permaculture Listserve"<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees
>
>
> > In my experience, pruning usually leads to more pruning.  Depending on the
> > tree's response to pruning (maybe due to the timing of the pruning, ie
> > waxing or waning moon), more corrective pruning may be necessary to keep
> > the shape desired, or to manage rampant growth (water sprouts) which may
> > compromise tree health and stability.
> >
> > I am a fan of minimal pruning.  I prune to correct crossing branches, or
> > to reduce the chance of branches breaking due to occlude bark or bad
> > branch angles.  It is true that larger and higher quality fruit is the
> > result of a proper pruning regime.
> >
> > Grafted trees definitely grow differently than seedlings.  Due to their
> > precocious nature, they set large amounts of fruit early on in life.
> > Also, depending on where the scion came from on the mother tree, the graft
> > retains the memory.  For example, if you use a laterally growing branch
> > for a scion, the grated tree may grow sideways.  Same goes for cuttings.
> >
> > I have been working on growing out fruit trees that are true to type from
> > seed, in my own small and slow way.  I have found that many subtropical
> > fruit trees produce high quality fruit from seed, ie cherimoyas, loquats,
> > rose apples, pineapple guavas and others.  We also have some local
> > naturalized white peaches that are great from seed.  These trees all seem
> > to have great form naturally and do not need much pruning at all.
> >
> > I think Fukuoka must have been growing seedlings, especially since he was
> > so zen and probably didn't deem it necessary to graft.  I also like Sepp
> > Holzer's approach to plant seeds in the field and graft in place, and then
> > leave the seedling branches below the graft.  I don't think he prunes much
> > at all either.
> >
> > Loren Luyendyk
> > ISA Certified Arborist #WE 7805A
> > Permaculture Design&  Education
> > (805) 452-8249
> > www.sborganics.com
> > www.globalpermaculture.com
> > www.surferswithoutborders.org