permaculture

["sals3" <sals3@cox.net>]

I like this thread.  I found that some mangoes grow true to type.  I can't 
spell but they call them pollyembroatic or something like that.  they way I 
tell is that the mango seed that put out more than one tree from the seed 
usually come true to mom.  I live in Santa Barbara and I had lots of grafted 
mango trees that were kill back below the graft from a freeze we had in the 
90s so now I really prize seedlings because there is no dying below the 
graft and they can come back true.  I know folks that only eat from seedling 
trees and think grafting is not so good.  either the scion grows faster than 
the graft or vice a verse .  I think for money people in stores all buy Hass 
or name brands.  so for money I grow good tasting grafted trees but I also 
love seedlings .  I also have a white peach that has great seedlings .  I 
have a orange grapefruit that is so sweet and comes true to seed so far. 
remember all trees came from seedlings .  I would like to see the list of 
true parent  seed plants.  nothing beats a true seedling with tap root and 
natural growth.  all one and the same plant .
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "loren luyendyk" <loren@sborganics.com>
To: "Permaculture Listserve" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees


> In my experience, pruning usually leads to more pruning.  Depending on the 
> tree's response to pruning (maybe due to the timing of the pruning, ie 
> waxing or waning moon), more corrective pruning may be necessary to keep 
> the shape desired, or to manage rampant growth (water sprouts) which may 
> compromise tree health and stability.
>
> I am a fan of minimal pruning.  I prune to correct crossing branches, or 
> to reduce the chance of branches breaking due to occlude bark or bad 
> branch angles.  It is true that larger and higher quality fruit is the 
> result of a proper pruning regime.
>
> Grafted trees definitely grow differently than seedlings.  Due to their 
> precocious nature, they set large amounts of fruit early on in life. 
> Also, depending on where the scion came from on the mother tree, the graft 
> retains the memory.  For example, if you use a laterally growing branch 
> for a scion, the grated tree may grow sideways.  Same goes for cuttings.
>
> I have been working on growing out fruit trees that are true to type from 
> seed, in my own small and slow way.  I have found that many subtropical 
> fruit trees produce high quality fruit from seed, ie cherimoyas, loquats, 
> rose apples, pineapple guavas and others.  We also have some local 
> naturalized white peaches that are great from seed.  These trees all seem 
> to have great form naturally and do not need much pruning at all.
>
> I think Fukuoka must have been growing seedlings, especially since he was 
> so zen and probably didn't deem it necessary to graft.  I also like Sepp 
> Holzer's approach to plant seeds in the field and graft in place, and then 
> leave the seedling branches below the graft.  I don't think he prunes much 
> at all either.
>
> Loren Luyendyk
> ISA Certified Arborist #WE 7805A
> Permaculture Design & Education
> (805) 452-8249
> www.sborganics.com
> www.globalpermaculture.com
> www.surferswithoutborders.org
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: g.parlow@gmx.at
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:43:53 +0100
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees
> >
> > > If you just
> > > want to keep yourself and family in fruit then it probably doesn't
> > > matter
> > > that much.
> >
> > Unfortunately in some families the (adolescent) kids are the most
> > choosy customers - they insist on blemish free standard looking and
> > tasting (!) fruit or else they will simply go without.
> >
> > georg
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