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  • From: "sals3" <sals3@cox.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees
  • Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:19:14 -0800

I like this thread. I found that some mangoes grow true to type. I can't spell but they call them pollyembroatic or something like that. they way I tell is that the mango seed that put out more than one tree from the seed usually come true to mom. I live in Santa Barbara and I had lots of grafted mango trees that were kill back below the graft from a freeze we had in the 90s so now I really prize seedlings because there is no dying below the graft and they can come back true. I know folks that only eat from seedling trees and think grafting is not so good. either the scion grows faster than the graft or vice a verse . I think for money people in stores all buy Hass or name brands. so for money I grow good tasting grafted trees but I also love seedlings . I also have a white peach that has great seedlings . I have a orange grapefruit that is so sweet and comes true to seed so far. remember all trees came from seedlings . I would like to see the list of true parent seed plants. nothing beats a true seedling with tap root and natural growth. all one and the same plant .
----- Original Message ----- From: "loren luyendyk" <loren@sborganics.com>
To: "Permaculture Listserve" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees



In my experience, pruning usually leads to more pruning. Depending on the tree's response to pruning (maybe due to the timing of the pruning, ie waxing or waning moon), more corrective pruning may be necessary to keep the shape desired, or to manage rampant growth (water sprouts) which may compromise tree health and stability.

I am a fan of minimal pruning. I prune to correct crossing branches, or to reduce the chance of branches breaking due to occlude bark or bad branch angles. It is true that larger and higher quality fruit is the result of a proper pruning regime.

Grafted trees definitely grow differently than seedlings. Due to their precocious nature, they set large amounts of fruit early on in life. Also, depending on where the scion came from on the mother tree, the graft retains the memory. For example, if you use a laterally growing branch for a scion, the grated tree may grow sideways. Same goes for cuttings.

I have been working on growing out fruit trees that are true to type from seed, in my own small and slow way. I have found that many subtropical fruit trees produce high quality fruit from seed, ie cherimoyas, loquats, rose apples, pineapple guavas and others. We also have some local naturalized white peaches that are great from seed. These trees all seem to have great form naturally and do not need much pruning at all.

I think Fukuoka must have been growing seedlings, especially since he was so zen and probably didn't deem it necessary to graft. I also like Sepp Holzer's approach to plant seeds in the field and graft in place, and then leave the seedling branches below the graft. I don't think he prunes much at all either.

Loren Luyendyk
ISA Certified Arborist #WE 7805A
Permaculture Design & Education
(805) 452-8249
www.sborganics.com
www.globalpermaculture.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org





From: g.parlow@gmx.at
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:43:53 +0100
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees

> If you just
> want to keep yourself and family in fruit then it probably doesn't
> matter
> that much.

Unfortunately in some families the (adolescent) kids are the most
choosy customers - they insist on blemish free standard looking and
tasting (!) fruit or else they will simply go without.

georg
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