permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

I hear you about soil production and we do plenty of "chop and drop" here, 
and it definitely does build soil. The chinampas you mention, Dieter, also 
work well in Florida if you have water (and small lakes/ponds are all over 
the place).  I tend to anchor them, rather than float, and use the muck at 
the bottom of the pond, full of fertile waste, as well as other waste. Some 
of us are experimenting with biochar - also with hugelkultur and other 
approaches. It is always interesting to try new approaches!

Cory


________________________________
 From: Thomas Paul Jahn <thomaspauljahn@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Biochar
 
Dieter, I actually came to think that *you* - in particular - should try
biochar on your property in Portugal. You have repeatedly said that water
shortage is your main challenge.
Irrespective of your critism to biochar as a solution, or rather in line
with your healthy scepticism, I think you should give it a try on a very
small plot. I could imagine that this would kick-start your vegetation and
in the end lead to much more humus production than before.

It is not my ambition to find a solution for Florida or any other big
project. Big project such as geoengeneering destroy local efforts.
I want to encourage people to experiment themselves. 'Research' will always
only suggest package solutions. And they are never ideal for more than one
particular situation.

In particular with biochar, we cannot wait and rely on others research. We
gotta experiment ourselves.

thanks for the link to "die schwimmenden Gärten"

Thomas





2011/11/19 Dieter Brand <diebrand@yahoo.com>

> Cory,
>
> Perhaps you are right that biochar is a good choice a place like Florida –
> especially on sandy soils.  I have no experience with that.  I do share
> your problem of high temperatures, but in my semi-arid climate, I don’t
> have the advantage of the huge amounts of biomass that can be produced in
> the humid tropics.  I think whether or not one uses biochar, in a climate
> like yours one should in any case let nature produce as much biomass as
> possible and return it to the soil without tilling by “slash and drop” as
> in the frijol tapado.  The export of European farming methods including
> deep plowing is in large part responsible for the destruction of tropical
> soils and loss of SOM.
>
> Raoul and Annie Francé, two biologists who investigated soils worldwide
> for over 40 years in the first half of the last century and who first came
> up with the concept of Edaphon for the community of all soil organisms,
> considered that the most fertile soils are to be found in the humid
> tropics.  On page 96 of her final work entitled “A last chance for a future
> without penury” she describes swimming gardens maintained by natives in
> different parts of Latin America.  I post a copy of the German original
> below because I don’t have the time to translate the whole.  She calls
> these swimming gardens “detritus islands” of several meters in depth that
> where constantly replenished with all kinds of organic materials including
> Guano and fish.  She said that this organic detritus would burn in the
> scorching sun to produce “ideal humus” which the natives had known to make
> since ancient times.  The gardens where moored in lakes, rivers or other
> bodies
>  of water by poles and cultivated from boats since the ground wasn’t firm
> enough to stand on.   She also describes how these swimming gardens would
> produce one crop after the other of giant corn or vegetables without any
> harvest loss whatsoever.
>
> I wouldn’t be surprised if this is exactly how tera preta was formed in
> the Amazon region.
>
> Dieter
>
> Das Wunderbarste an ähnlich seit Urzeiten ausgenützter Verlandung sind die
> Schwimmenden Gärten in Mexiko. Es gab sie früher, ehe der Barbar Pizarro
> in das wohlgeordnete Staatswesen der Inkas einbrach, überall im Land, vor
> allem am Titicacasee. Heute sieht man sie nur noch in Xochimilko. Sie
> schwimmen buchstäblich auf dem stillen Wasser der Kanäle. Es sind
> meterhohe Detrituseilande, die immer wieder neu aufgeschüttet und zuweilen
> von hohen Pfählen festgehalten werden. In der brütenden Sonne erhitzt sich
> der aus Sinkstoffen abgesetzte Schlamm, der landesüblich nur mit
> ruderförmigen
> Spaten bearbeitet wird. Eine unvorstellbare, unschilderbare Lebensfülle
> wimmelt in dem feuchten, warmen Grund. Es ist ein Idealhumus,
> den, man weiß nicht wann, die Indianer sich so geschaffen haben und den
> auch Ureinwohner von Peru, noch weit früher als die Inkas, herzustellen
> verstanden. Bei ihnen werden solche schwimmenden Gärten an den kurzen
> Küstenflüssen angelegt, und die Frauen, denen diese Arbeit obliegt, fahren
> in
> Kähnen zu ihnen hinaus und säen und ernten oft nur vom Kahn aus, da der
> Schlammboden nicht fest genug ist, daß man ihn betreten kann. Obendrein
> wird der Grund noch mit sorgfältig gesammeltem Guano gedüngt, außerdem
> mit Fischen. (Diese letztere Sitte ist den meisten Indianerstämmen gemein.)
> Riesig schießt der Mais mit halbmeterlangen Kolben auf, Bohnen, Gemüse,
> Früchte aller Art, die farbenprächtigsten Blumen, alle Faserpflanzen,
> Baumwolle, Nesseln, als Einfassung oft Agaven — alles gedeiht in
> unbeschreiblicher
> Üppigkeit. Die Jahreszeit spielt keine Rolle. Unablässig wird
> gesät und geerntet. Mißernten sind unbekannt. Unabhängig vom Regen des
> Himmels befruchtet das Wasser von unten den Detritus, der sich in uner
> meßlichem Überfluß durch die Pflanzenabfälle von oben stets neu bildet und
> nur vom seichten Grund heraufgeholt zu werden braucht.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 11/18/11, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Biochar is not indicated for every
> > climate and soil and is not a cure all.  I don't see any
> > need for it in clay soils, personally.  It works in the
> > Amazon and it can work in places like Florida, with sandy
> > soils almost devoid of organic material (because it washes
> > right thru the soils, or bakes off in the sun, etc). Note
> > that "terra preta" is a combination of organic materials,
> > minerals and biochar, and they all work together to create
> > the end results.The jury is still out, research is still
> > being done, but biochar could end up being very useful for
> > stabilizing soils in Florida. One can argue that we could
> > just plant plants that grow well in sand, and that is true,
> > we could, and some people do. Understand that in much of
> > Florida, especially near the coasts, the "soil" is actually
> > beach sand, with almost nothing else there where it has been
> > disturbed at all.   We are having good results with gardens
> > by adding copious amounts of organic material that is
> >  well protected from run off and sunburn.  But if biochar
> > can be sustainably produced (which it can, from fast growing
> > woody plants rather than trees, and proper pyrolysis), it
> > very well could be an important aspect to soil building.
> >
> > Cory
>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Growing algae in irrigation water?
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Dieter,

The first message didn't come through so I try again.

Why don't you try using large slate stones to cover your waterways. I have 
seen this practiced in quite a few places in the French and Italian Alps.

You can cover your waterways completely or partially, depending on how much 
light you want on your irrigation water. And if you select slate stones that 
are thick enough you can easily walk over them as well. Slate is of course 
also a natural product, which, imho is more desirable than plastic, etc, and 
does not have the transpiration problems of planting shade plants.

Slate may be fairly accessible (and affordable?) for you in Portugal. In 
Galicia, Spain, there are a many slate quarries, and even Portugal is a large 
producer of slate in the EU.

Daniel



On 11/19/2011 11:14 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:
> On 11/19/2011 6:18 PM, Dieter Brand wrote:
>> Thanks Lawrence,
>>
>> The shading from plants may reduce evaporation but that is probably
>> more than offset by transpiration via the leaves.
>
> Dieter, my impression is that it might be good to look into that
> further, transpiration figures for duckweed as opposed to direct loss
> through evaporation, ratios and comparison with water conservation
> figures for other schemes. Also the duckweed with reduce water
> temperature thus reducing loss through evaporation. Google it.
>
> "reduced evaporation in pond when surface is covered with duckweed"

>> I hit on the idea of trying to encourage algae growth in my
>> irrigation system because of something I read about high fertility in
>> some of the ancient cultures in which irrigation was used.  It was
>> assumed that part of the fertility was due to the algae that would
>> form in the extended network of irrigation channels.
>
> It sounds like a great idea. If you can grow azolla where you are then
> that would be the aquatic plant of choice for accomplishing
> nitrification of irrigation water.
>
> DUCKWEED: A tiny aquatic plant with enormous potential for agriculture
> and environment
> http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/resources/documents/DW/Dw2.htm
> "Azolla, which is a member of the fern family grows extensively in
> association with nitrogen fixing bacteria, which allows it to produce on
> waters low in N but containing phosphorus. Azolla has been
> comprehensively discussed by van Hove (1989)."

Another suggestion:

Obtain some Reemay or translucent woven synthetic fabric row cover used
for crop cold protection. Grow duckweed in your water impoundment or
tank(s) for added nitrogen or azolla or throw a little manure or compost
in there and watch the algae grow. Cover the tank(s) with or without
aquatic plants with Reemay to prevent most evaporation or loss through
plant transpiration. Build a frame out of wood or plastic pipe
a little bigger than the opening of your tank; attach a section of
Reemay to it; the weight of the frame will hold the Reemay in place over
the tank while providing easy access to the tank for maintance, i.e.
harvesting duckweed for animal feed or compost/fertilizer (high in
nitrogen). There's a big plus to growing duckweed, you shade your
impoundment, purify the water and produce high quality fertilizer.


LL