permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Beautifully spoken, Kelly. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughtful 
observation and wisdom; looking forward to hearing more from you. 

Cory

--- On Mon, 9/27/10, Kelly Simmons <kelly@bouldersustainability.org> wrote:

> From: Kelly Simmons <kelly@bouldersustainability.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Lakota wisdom, invisible structures
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 3:12 PM
> Thank you Cory.  I appreciate
> this post very much.
> 
> I've been reading the entire, crazy, changing threads with
> some discomfort as well as interest.  I often stress in
> the PDC's that I am fortunate to be involved in, that
> learning to garden or catch rainwater or map sectors is the
> easy part of permaculture.  Getting along, for us
> humans. is the hardest part.  And it seems to be
> getting harder.  I'm not in favor of getting along as
> an end in itself, but many a fine group or community has
> been done in by wild conflagrations like the one this forum
> has been undergoing.
> 
> What it seems to boil down to, to me, is a fundamental
> difference in values.  There are those that value
> questioning authority, radical critique, exposing the soft
> underbelly, critiquing the power elite and power structures
> (whatever you want to call it),  and there are those
> that value building bridges, finding common ground, bringing
> as many as possible along with us.  I confess I tend to
> land in the building bridges camp after spending a good deal
> of time in college in the questioning authority camp. 
> That's not to imply these camps have everything to do with
> age, just telling you my history.
> 
> It's my personal opinion that both camps have value. 
> Just like a diversity of plants and animals have
> value.   It has value to question the status
> quo, to call for change, to question power structures and
> rage against the machine.  It also has value to build
> bridges, find common ground and etc.  When I read the
> various posts, it is clear to me that, (to be simplistic),
> we tend to value actions or criticize actions depending on
> which camp speaks to us.
> 
> I think both or many sides of a debate can enrich our
> thinking and learning.  But it is often too easy to
> leap to the attack based on one's cherished values and,
> possibly, perceived slights to those values.  That
> wrecks the rich learning ptential as folks polarize to
> defend their camp, or their values, or their side.
> 
> It's important to allow questioning.  It is important
> to be able to raise issues for discussion.  It's also
> important to listen well, to consider thoughtfully, to
> eschew black and white thinking (on all sides of an issue),
> and not to leap (or press send) before some time has been
> spent in reflection.
> 
> So thank you Cory for this wisdom.
> 
> Perhaps it would help the discourse, for all of us to take
> some time after composing a post, to let it sit overnight or
> a few days before hitting the send button.  It's a lot
> harder to be provoked into saying something regrettable if a
> few days have gone by in the garden, or the woods, and with
> friends before hitting the send
> button.   What's a little time spent in
> reflection and calming down going to hurt?
> 
> Protracted and thoughtful observation is so much better
> than protracted and thoughtless action.
> 
> I'm a new comer to this forum.  I appreciate the venue
> and the folks that are here.
> 
> Thanks for your time and consideration of my post.
> 
> Kelly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 21, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> 
> > There are certain things about the Lakota culture and
> people that I really treasure and love; working with Lakota
> has given me some really valuable insights into applying
> permaculture principles.
> > 
> > A couple of nights ago at Pine Ridge on a chilly fall
> night, we shared tobacco and heart-speech around a fire,
> Lakota fashion.
> > 
> > Each person was given a chance to speak from his or
> her heart, for as long as we wanted to, and say whatever we
> wanted to say, while everyone else gave full attention,
> respect and honor to that person. What a healing action that
> was for our project!
> > 
> > When I first arrived at Pine Ridge in 2005, a Lakota
> explained to me that in their culture, they often pause
> before responding to someone's comment, and this is often
> misinterpreted as "being slow or dull."  In fact, it is
> a deep sign of respect for the other person - an indication
> that you are truly listening - and not just listening, but
> taking the time to actually consider what the other person
> said and their viewpoint on things, thoughtfully, before
> responding.
> > 
> > A form of thoughtful and protracted observation...
> > 
> > I am a fast talker from Los Angeles; at first, this
> manner of speaking was quite disconcerting to me and even
> jarring. I was continually interrupting the person I spoke
> with or finishing their sentence.  I still find myself
> going off half cocked at times, but I've learned something
> from the Lakota way. When I do use this form of
> communication, it almost always results in deeper
> understanding and better relations.
> > 
> > To Lakota, listening to and understanding others is
> important. That is not something that is much valued in this
> culture - we put far more emphasis on communicating our own
> viewpoints and convincing others of them.
> > 
> > One Lakota friend said jokingly, "sometimes it takes
> us a week or month to respond to someone's comment." 
> But it wasn't really a joke. I've actually seen Lakota do
> that with each other, and it is totally understood when it
> happens.
> > 
> > I realized that sometimes it takes all of us that long
> to truly process certain things that happen to us, or that
> are said to us. Or even years!  What a luxury, in a
> way, to be able to wait that long to respond, and have the
> other person understand and appreciate that you are being
> thoughtful about it :-)
> > 
> > I have incorporated the "talking stick" or "sharing
> tobacco" into all of my community efforts. It is one of the
> most powerful invisible structure tools I know of for
> building compassion and understanding and therefore, a
> stronger community.
> > 
> > It's harder via email - I've tried it one on one with
> wonderful results, but never in a group.  But perhaps
> it is something we would want to try here....There really is
> no reason it wouldn't work, now that I think about it.
> > 
> > I realized after the tobacco sharing that I have a
> modus operandi on the internet, especially when debate is
> raging, of going into persuasion essay mode, which doesn't
> usually entail careful listening and understanding.
> > 
> > I am going to hand over the talking stick to whoever
> wishes to hold it and speak their heart with respect and
> honor. I pledge to listen thoughtfully, and to strive to
> understand your heart.
> > 
> > Love, Cory
> > 
> > 
> > 
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