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- From: Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>
- To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: [permaculture] Guilds involving Celtis spp.
- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
With the play we were getting on this walnut/Celtis guilding, I thought I
might just throw out there this season's observations on what does and does
not appear to grow under sugarberry trees (Celtis laevigata).
Does Grow under Celtis
Goats
Poultry (both do very well on the tree's products, as might humans from what
I hear)
Loquat (Eriobotrya japonica)
Cherry laurel
Ligustrum (somewhat "invasive" but has medicinal qualities too)
Other common privets
Yaupon holly
Nandina
(A lot of this is pre-existing onsite, but one never knows what information
another might be after; I don't want to pass unnecessary judgement on these
species.)
Does not grow under Celtis
Figs
Tea/camellia (these first two did fine until the late summer sugar drop)
Mints
Grass/bamboo
Time to remove some plants! Too bad it can't be my neighbor's sugarberry....
Tripp
The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
>From raincascadia@yahoo.com Wed Sep 22 14:21:32 2010
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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [permaculture] reinforcing feedback loops on this list
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I first heard about ecosystem theory (and, hence, systems theory) in sixth
grade and immediately felt I understood whole systems on an intuitive level.
However, in the years since I haven't ever really tried to go deeply into
systems theory, despite reading a few books on the topic, majoring in ecology
in college, taking and teaching permaculture courses, and doing permaculture
design. In any case, I have observed on this permaculture list during the
past few weeks reinforcing (positive) feedback loops form and dissolve
repeatedly, in the form of escalating unskillful speech. There has been some
talk about using permaculture principles to try to create more useful
communication, but the lack of such practice seems to indicate that I am not
the only one with only a rudimentary idea of how systems work. Ideally, the
list moderator would be able to observe these loops forming, and introduce
other elements or pathways to guide them towards beneficial
communication. Instead, the moderator has actually added to the reinforcing
loops, making the situation worse. It is very frustrating to see the
permaculture community practice the same dysfunctional behavior as in
mainstream society, though I do recognize that it could be much worse and
that many people are making efforts to be more skillful in their
communication. I guess I am just offering an observation.
Rain
>From wodraska@mac.com Wed Sep 22 14:40:40 2010
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From: Woody Wodraska <wodraska@mac.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:40:35 -0700
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Lakota wisdom, invisible structures
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Thanks Cory so much for this listening truly is an act of love!
Bright Blessings,
Barbara and Woody
Woody Wodraska
wodraska@mac.com
http://www.soulmedicinejourney.com
Deep Gardening: Soul Lessons from 17 Gardens, Biodynamic
Memories now available at
http://www.trafford.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000138866
On Sep 22, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Linda Ray wrote:
> Thank you Cory, for your beautiful post. IMHO the Talking Stick is
> the best solution I have heard for this communication :-).
>
> Namaste,
>
> Linda
>
> --- On Tue, 9/21/10, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] Lakota wisdom, invisible structures
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 7:32 PM
>
>
> There are certain things about the Lakota culture and people that I
> really treasure and love; working with Lakota has given me some
> really valuable insights into applying permaculture principles.
>
> A couple of nights ago at Pine Ridge on a chilly fall night, we
> shared tobacco and heart-speech around a fire, Lakota fashion.
>
> Each person was given a chance to speak from his or her heart, for
> as long as we wanted to, and say whatever we wanted to say, while
> everyone else gave full attention, respect and honor to that person.
> What a healing action that was for our project!
>
> When I first arrived at Pine Ridge in 2005, a Lakota explained to me
> that in their culture, they often pause before responding to
> someone's comment, and this is often misinterpreted as "being slow
> or dull." In fact, it is a deep sign of respect for the other
> person - an indication that you are truly listening - and not just
> listening, but taking the time to actually consider what the other
> person said and their viewpoint on things, thoughtfully, before
> responding.
>
> A form of thoughtful and protracted observation...
>
> I am a fast talker from Los Angeles; at first, this manner of
> speaking was quite disconcerting to me and even jarring. I was
> continually interrupting the person I spoke with or finishing their
> sentence. I still find myself going off half cocked at times, but
> I've learned something from the Lakota way. When I do use this form
> of communication, it almost always results in deeper understanding
> and better relations.
>
> To Lakota, listening to and understanding others is important. That
> is not something that is much valued in this culture - we put far
> more emphasis on communicating our own viewpoints and convincing
> others of them.
>
> One Lakota friend said jokingly, "sometimes it takes us a week or
> month to respond to someone's comment." But it wasn't really a
> joke. I've actually seen Lakota do that with each other, and it is
> totally understood when it happens.
>
> I realized that sometimes it takes all of us that long to truly
> process certain things that happen to us, or that are said to us. Or
> even years! What a luxury, in a way, to be able to wait that long
> to respond, and have the other person understand and appreciate that
> you are being thoughtful about it :-)
>
> I have incorporated the "talking stick" or "sharing tobacco" into
> all of my community efforts. It is one of the most powerful
> invisible structure tools I know of for building compassion and
> understanding and therefore, a stronger community.
>
> It's harder via email - I've tried it one on one with wonderful
> results, but never in a group. But perhaps it is something we would
> want to try here....There really is no reason it wouldn't work, now
> that I think about it.
>
> I realized after the tobacco sharing that I have a modus operandi on
> the internet, especially when debate is raging, of going into
> persuasion essay mode, which doesn't usually entail careful
> listening and understanding.
>
> I am going to hand over the talking stick to whoever wishes to hold
> it and speak their heart with respect and honor. I pledge to listen
> thoughtfully, and to strive to understand your heart.
>
> Love, Cory
>
>
>
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- [permaculture] Guilds involving Celtis spp., Tripp Tibbetts, 09/22/2010
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