permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Kevin, 

Compassion can be very powerful, in subtle and not so subtle ways. Hate and 
vitriol often tend to lead to more hate and vitriol. 
In my human rights travels, I have seen love transform people in some quite 
amazing ways. I will always choose to believe that it can do so. It enriches 
my life in unending ways, to believe in the power of love and compassion.    

We each choose the path we do for many reasons. It very well may be that you 
and I will never share understanding of what path I've chosen, less the 
reasons I've chosen it. I'm not a simple person, I don't easily fit into 
catagories and I can see it was an error to try to share with you something 
of who I am and what I've done with my life via an email list. It doesn't 
translate.

I wish you well, I hope you achieve your deepest passions, and manifest your 
highest self, and find the path that fulfills you.

Cory

--- On Sun, 9/19/10, kevin skvorak <k.skvorak@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: kevin skvorak <k.skvorak@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] valuing information
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 8:36 AM
> Well Cory,
> 
> I really don't want to be offensive, or attack you, but you
> ask for my
> thoughts, and here they are:
> 
> Of course the Taliban and other fundamentalist movements in
> the region have
> long been supported directly and indirectly by US imperial
> efforts.  Saudia
> Arabia is currently a tool and ally of the US and Israel in
> these efforts,
> and we all know the history (or should) of afghanistan
> prior to the rise of
> the taliban there.
> 
> So, your "choice" between the US military and the Taliban
> is a false one,
> and is not a very "considered"  way of thinking
> imho.  Of course the people
> of afghanistan would have been long better off without ANY
> US involvement,
> as the US created the conditions and directly supported the
> rise of the
> Taliban.  Now that we/US have "broken all the eggs"
> there is no going back,
> but it does not mean more support for more of the
> same.  Again, the
> solutions imo are direct aid/support/solidarity with truly
> democratic
> organizations/peoples efforts on the ground wherever they
> may be, not
> colusion with military establishments that are tools of an
> imperial/corporate agenda. Very simple really.
> 
> And honestly In fact, most of what you express on this list
> seems as equally
> badly thought through imho anyway.
> 
> You claim below to have "been there, done that" in regards
> to radical
> approaches to social change, which must mean:
> 
> You once held the belief that Corporate Capitalist
> structures of power are
> unreformable, and must be dismantled/replaced/resisted
> by/with democratic
> decentralized forms of power and economic exchange. 
> Yet now you DO believe
> that Coporations are reformable, and that we all just need
> to "teach" those
> who wield the levers of power in these institutions and
> they will come
> around to our way of thinking.  That is an unusual
> trajectory for an
> activist, but if it is yours i accept that.
> 
> The same could go for your celebration of  direct US
> imperial
> structures/systems like the US military, which most radical
> activists see as
> being long an enemy of the type of democratic social change
> that would best
> embody PC principles on the ground throughout the
> world.  Yet you claim to
> have come from a position of resistance/rejection to/of
> these forces, and
> now your "careful and considered observation" has led you
> to believe they
> are transformable after all?  Interesting...
> 
> As far as your work in other areas, honestly if this is the
> quality of your
> thinking as far as strategy and solidarity with those most
> impacted by
> imperial/corporate practices, you probably have the
> capacity to be somewhat
> dangerous, despite your good intentions.  Your work is
> likely ripe for
> unintended consequences, support/cover for
> corporate/imperial forces, etc
> imho.  No offense, but you did ask after all.
> 
> I don't want to keep contributing "negative" posts to this
> list, but these
> are serious issues, and do deserve serious and clear
> thinking on them.  I do
> not  believe I am even close to being the person who
> can provide that clear
> thinking, but I haven't seen enough (i have seen some tho)
> of it here yet,
> so i am contributing the best i have.
> 
> These are issues that are important for ALL of us. 
> How some people do or
> don't do "Permaculture" does affect us all.  We don't
> currently have any
> accountability to each other regarding all this, but IMHO
> we probably ought
> to.
> 
> sincerely,
> kevin
> 
> 
> re:
> Cory wrote
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> What do you think about this quote from your link?
> 
> "When the Taliban took over in Afghanistan, women who
> refused to wear
> burkhas, refused to stay entombed inside their houses, were
> lined up
> by the hundreds and shot. In Algeria, the Islamic
> fundamentalists have
> murdered 80,000 women who have resisted their demands, and
> the
> fundamentalists don't even control the government. I've
> heard from
> someone who's traveled extensively in Iraq that the same
> thing is
> happening to women there: men are picking women off one by
> one, any
> woman who looks like she's educated or has a job or is
> independent is
> a target for rape and murder."
> 
> Do you think that situation should be handled with radical
> action, or
> liberal action?  Do you think the Taliban's treatment
> of women is more
> enlightened than the US Army's? Or less, or equal to? Do
> you think
> permaculturists should teach Taliban men permaculture, who
> might use
> it to further consolidate their power to oppress women?
> Give me a
> choice, as a woman, I'll take my chances with the US Army
> over the
> Taliban. I would prefer neither, however.
> 
> My mother was a 60's feminist and I was steeped in thinking
> like
> Lierre's before I hit puberty.  I've been working in
> the fields of
> sexual slavery/human trafficking of women and young girls
> for years.
> It's pretty damn ugly and horrifying. One reason I like
> permaculture
> is because it gives some solutions to that horrific world
> wide
> situation. I'm not a radical feminist myself - I have found
> that men
> who abuse women often do so because they have been abused,
> that the
> cultural paradigms themselves are so abusive to both men
> and women
> that neither can heal. I've found that perpetuating a
> culture,
> regardless of justification, of violence, punishment and
> abuse only
> begets more of it - it heals nothing ultimately. I've found
> that love,
> compassion and understanding can be more powerful weapons
> than bullets
> or bombs. That is just my personal viewpoint and experience
> and I'm
> still working on manifesting love over bullets.
> 
> By the way, one segment of the version of the PDC I teach
> includes
> lessons from "Gene Sharp's work, especially The Politics of
> Nonviolent
> Action," - civil disobedience, permaculture style as in
> City Repair,
> guerilla gardening, etc, etc, etc. I was there at S Central
> Farm.  So
> I may not so easily fit into your catagory of "liberal" (I
> would
> catagorize things differently than Lierre tho I can see why
> she splits
> things in that way). Thinks are rarely black and white....
> 
> Rain, the concept of consciously designing systems, our
> lives, our
> cultures, as individuals, and as groups, on all levels, and
> the
> journey of becoming more and more conscious as a part of
> the process
> of attempting such a thing is one of the most consumingly
> exciting
> aspects of permaculture for me. Thanks for posting the
> article.
> 
> Love, Cory
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