permaculture

[Chris <kairos.chris@gmail.com>]

I know that Lawrence said no more on this subject,  but I'll take a stab 
anyway.
I've been following this with great interest and have been trying to find a 
voice in this matter, as a permaculturalist, an anarchist, as someone who 
spent college at a military university and who has many friends and 
acquaintances currently serving, including those in "elite" units.
However,  what's on my mind is dialogue.  I'm lamenting what has been lost 
when good points and questions are made, and then met with sarcasm, personal 
attacks etc.  This I should note is true of both sides of the issue.
The original issue was an ethical one, thus subject to debate.  That's how I 
see ethics.  They are not set in stone but depend on a dialectic.
Someone mentioned Murray Bookchin before.  He ruffled many feathers in his 
day, criticizing deep ecology, Earth First! and other parallel movements to 
his, often on ethical grounds. He did this by making his points clear, not 
attacking others personally, and showing solidarity whenever the shit hit the 
fan.  He also accepted and celebrated criticism.  He gave a friend of mine a 
job at the Institute for Social Ecology for writing a paper critical of that 
movement. A colleague of his told me that this is from his growing up in a 
New York City neighborhood where radicals openly debated each other.  This is 
what we have lost. It is all to easy to get sloppy and fall on logical 
fallacies, including personal attacks when we are working with this medium.
I'm not going to get into where I stand on this issue.  I am currently at The 
Farm in Tennessee on the staff of a Pc teachers course with Dave Jacke, Kim 
Almeida, and Kay Cafasso.  I am leading a discussion on the ethics of 
teaching in a couple of days, an I plan to bring up this issue of who we 
chose to teach to for what I hope will be a lively and productive debate. 
Thank you to everyone on this list for doing all that you do.  Despite the 
disagreements, I believe we are all doing what we believe to be right in our 
hearts.
In Solidarity
Chris

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2010, at 3:45 PM, "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj@bellsouth.net> 
wrote:

> On 9/19/2010 11:36 AM, kevin skvorak wrote:
> 
>> I really don't want to be offensive, or attack you, but you ask for my
>> thoughts, and here they are:
>> 
>> Of course the Taliban and other fundamentalist movements in the region have
>> long been supported directly and indirectly by US imperial efforts.  Saudia
>> Arabia is currently a tool and ally of the US and Israel in these efforts,
>> and we all know the history (or should) of afghanistan prior to the rise of
>> the taliban there.
> 
> He must work for the CIA, so sure of his facts and sources he is.
> 
> 
>> And honestly In fact, most of what you express on this list seems as 
>> equally
>> badly thought through imho anyway.
> 
> This is not being offensive or attacking Cory. So tactful, polite, 
> complimentary...
> I doubt Kevin bothered to read through all Cory wrote.
> 
>> I don't want to keep contributing "negative" posts to this list, but these
> 
> Certainly not!
> 
>> are serious issues, and do deserve serious and clear thinking on them.  I 
>> do
> 
> I guess Kevin is the only one here who takes human rights and international 
> politics/economics seriously.
> 
>> not  believe I am even close to being the person who can provide that clear
>> thinking,
> 
> For once he speaks the truth.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This is not a political or human rights forum. I can appreciate the 
> worthwhile responses
> to your posts but enough is enough, this thread must end. Cory's last post 
> is almost reason
> enough to turn this list into one exclusively for human rights (but can not 
> do that, obviously)
> except for the fact that I would then have to continue reading your 
> unending insufferable drivel.
> You never learn from what others write in response to your posts, Kevin. 
> Why is that? You always go
> off on your little mindless political tirades, just like Nicholas.
> Stay on the topic of permaculture or find another forum to participate in.
> Maybe you, Rafter and Nicholas could start a new list of your own. If you 
> don't interest any
> subscribers you could bore each other to tears.
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