permaculture

[kevin skvorak <k.skvorak@gmail.com>]

Well Cory,

I really don't want to be offensive, or attack you, but you ask for my
thoughts, and here they are:

Of course the Taliban and other fundamentalist movements in the region have
long been supported directly and indirectly by US imperial efforts.  Saudia
Arabia is currently a tool and ally of the US and Israel in these efforts,
and we all know the history (or should) of afghanistan prior to the rise of
the taliban there.

So, your "choice" between the US military and the Taliban is a false one,
and is not a very "considered"  way of thinking imho.  Of course the people
of afghanistan would have been long better off without ANY US involvement,
as the US created the conditions and directly supported the rise of the
Taliban.  Now that we/US have "broken all the eggs" there is no going back,
but it does not mean more support for more of the same.  Again, the
solutions imo are direct aid/support/solidarity with truly democratic
organizations/peoples efforts on the ground wherever they may be, not
colusion with military establishments that are tools of an
imperial/corporate agenda. Very simple really.

And honestly In fact, most of what you express on this list seems as equally
badly thought through imho anyway.

You claim below to have "been there, done that" in regards to radical
approaches to social change, which must mean:

You once held the belief that Corporate Capitalist structures of power are
unreformable, and must be dismantled/replaced/resisted by/with democratic
decentralized forms of power and economic exchange.  Yet now you DO believe
that Coporations are reformable, and that we all just need to "teach" those
who wield the levers of power in these institutions and they will come
around to our way of thinking.  That is an unusual trajectory for an
activist, but if it is yours i accept that.

The same could go for your celebration of  direct US imperial
structures/systems like the US military, which most radical activists see as
being long an enemy of the type of democratic social change that would best
embody PC principles on the ground throughout the world.  Yet you claim to
have come from a position of resistance/rejection to/of these forces, and
now your "careful and considered observation" has led you to believe they
are transformable after all?  Interesting...

As far as your work in other areas, honestly if this is the quality of your
thinking as far as strategy and solidarity with those most impacted by
imperial/corporate practices, you probably have the capacity to be somewhat
dangerous, despite your good intentions.  Your work is likely ripe for
unintended consequences, support/cover for corporate/imperial forces, etc
imho.  No offense, but you did ask after all.

I don't want to keep contributing "negative" posts to this list, but these
are serious issues, and do deserve serious and clear thinking on them.  I do
not  believe I am even close to being the person who can provide that clear
thinking, but I haven't seen enough (i have seen some tho) of it here yet,
so i am contributing the best i have.

These are issues that are important for ALL of us.  How some people do or
don't do "Permaculture" does affect us all.  We don't currently have any
accountability to each other regarding all this, but IMHO we probably ought
to.

sincerely,
kevin


re:
Cory wrote

Kevin,

What do you think about this quote from your link?

"When the Taliban took over in Afghanistan, women who refused to wear
burkhas, refused to stay entombed inside their houses, were lined up
by the hundreds and shot. In Algeria, the Islamic fundamentalists have
murdered 80,000 women who have resisted their demands, and the
fundamentalists don't even control the government. I've heard from
someone who's traveled extensively in Iraq that the same thing is
happening to women there: men are picking women off one by one, any
woman who looks like she's educated or has a job or is independent is
a target for rape and murder."

Do you think that situation should be handled with radical action, or
liberal action?  Do you think the Taliban's treatment of women is more
enlightened than the US Army's? Or less, or equal to? Do you think
permaculturists should teach Taliban men permaculture, who might use
it to further consolidate their power to oppress women? Give me a
choice, as a woman, I'll take my chances with the US Army over the
Taliban. I would prefer neither, however.

My mother was a 60's feminist and I was steeped in thinking like
Lierre's before I hit puberty.  I've been working in the fields of
sexual slavery/human trafficking of women and young girls for years.
It's pretty damn ugly and horrifying. One reason I like permaculture
is because it gives some solutions to that horrific world wide
situation. I'm not a radical feminist myself - I have found that men
who abuse women often do so because they have been abused, that the
cultural paradigms themselves are so abusive to both men and women
that neither can heal. I've found that perpetuating a culture,
regardless of justification, of violence, punishment and abuse only
begets more of it - it heals nothing ultimately. I've found that love,
compassion and understanding can be more powerful weapons than bullets
or bombs. That is just my personal viewpoint and experience and I'm
still working on manifesting love over bullets.

By the way, one segment of the version of the PDC I teach includes
lessons from "Gene Sharp's work, especially The Politics of Nonviolent
Action," - civil disobedience, permaculture style as in City Repair,
guerilla gardening, etc, etc, etc. I was there at S Central Farm.  So
I may not so easily fit into your catagory of "liberal" (I would
catagorize things differently than Lierre tho I can see why she splits
things in that way). Thinks are rarely black and white....

Rain, the concept of consciously designing systems, our lives, our
cultures, as individuals, and as groups, on all levels, and the
journey of becoming more and more conscious as a part of the process
of attempting such a thing is one of the most consumingly exciting
aspects of permaculture for me. Thanks for posting the article.

Love, Cory