permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 9/3/2010 4:14 PM, loren luyendyk wrote:
> Marjory and Lawrence-
>
> I looked into this technology and was impressed with the concept, but
> disappointed at the cost of the unit ($27.50 each for a minimum of
> 10, down to $8.50 if you can afford $62,000 for 7200 units).  If
> people can't afford to plant trees how will they afford this?  It
> seems like a rich man's scheme to get funding for his product though
> the guise of humanitarian work.  I do agree that this is a great idea
> and replicable with the real world in mind.

Too expensive for aid work, OK for homeowners, not for farms.

> I think your idea for using old tires and soda bottles is great,

tin cans and aluminum and steel soda and beer cans, no bottles, plastic 
or glass (hazards to wildlife)

> Lawrence.  A design that uses waste products from local areas is
> always preferrable to manufactured gizmos.  I was thinking of a

This is a job for appropriate technology.
Search Appropedia (appropedia.org) for existing devices and 
applications, ideas and RFI.

There are probably many other manufactured products that could be 
recycled for this use. Industrial products and equipment should not be 
overlooked as that might be more durable and better made and can be 
found at industrial recycling centers and scrapyards that recycle more 
than metal (most do). Food service and restaurant supply companies might 
have things that can be used.

Two other materials might be worth considering:
1) Spray on insulating foam, nontoxic, UV resistant, waterproof and sets 
up very tough and hard. This could be formed into the proper shapes 
which could include a water reservoir and be covered with
heavy gauge metal (aluminum) foil or mylar plastic or painted.
2) Fired or non-fired clay devices, glazed or non-glazed (they could 
fire and glaze them in their wood-fired cook stoves and ovens while 
cooking food; using the heat for two purposes - spread out over a year, 
they could fire a lot of condensation collectors, all sizes of them -
do the bigger ones in big wood fired bake ovens or roasting pits.
With clay you could shape them exactly as needed. With sun-baking or no 
firing them might hold together long enough to get the seedling off to a 
healthy start then fall apart and become part of the soil mix around the 
plant. I am thinking of some sort of waterproof adobe material that will 
hold together without coming apart after the first rain or a few months 
of condensation collection. Maybe coat the devices with some sort of 
waterproof nontoxic paint or, again, cover them with aluminum foil or 
mylar (that would probably do the trick and goive the device the needed 
longevity).

3) Combine 1) and 2) strategically.


> design using corrugated tin roofing with lots of nails like spines as
> condensers,

That's a good idea, recycled galvanized roofing. Cut pieces into squares 
with a hole in the center and slice through one side of the donut hole 
so you can remove it from the plant without damaging branches or leaves 
or if it becomes too big to go through the hole.
Puncture the tin (in the valleys, from the sky side not the soil side) 
with a sharp punch then turn it over and insert nails into the holes 
from the burr side (opposite from the entry point of the punch) - size 
the hole so the nail will fit tight and not work its way out - this will 
leave small water passages to allow flow from the collection side with 
nails sticking up, through the tin and into the ground below. You would 
also get some condensation on the bottom (soil) side too.

or better yet steel tubes (maybe not so readily
> available).  The donut shape is good, though it could be any shape
> as long as the condensation is directed to the root zone.

Tall aluminum drink cans - they could be bought from scrapyards that buy 
them for recycling -
tall beer cans
iced tea cans
energy drink cans
electrolyte drink cans
fruit drink cans
- and more

You could add them to the sheets of galvanized roofing attaching them 
with nails to the tops of the ridges using a long punch or drift with a 
clip on one end to hold a nail head - this way you 1) attach the can to 
the tin 2) punch a hole in its bottom and in the tin 3) you have the 
nail entering the soil serving to break surface tension at the hole and 
help wick moisture into the soil


> Surface area is an important part of the design.  If you look at the
> Waterboxx, it has ridges like a thistle leaf.  Metal would be the
> best material, as it tends to cool more and keep that temp longer

You could easily duplicate that very easily and cheaply - not spend much 
money and have a lot more fun.

> than plastic.  Stones also work well, especially angular ones used as
> a mulch or stacked high to the windward side of a tree seedling.
> Fog screens made of shade fabric will also trap moisture in windy
> areas, and serve as little micro-shelters for the plants.

Excellent.

> The concept is atmospheric moisture harvesting, which may be
> accomplished through many techniques.  The temperature differential
> between a material and the air causes condensation, which then is
> trapped and fed to a waiting plant or storage.  Milk thistles have
> evolved to do this wonderfully, along with 1000's if other dry
> coastal species.  Recognizing this pattern, we can plant nurse
> species that will condense dew, like Casaurina and Acacia (small or
> needle like leaves= lots of surface area) .  Using nature's own
> design will be the best long-term solution.

Squash does this magnificently. It will thrive in near drought. Okra too.