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  • From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] waterboxx
  • Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:48:19 -0400

On 9/3/2010 4:14 PM, loren luyendyk wrote:

Marjory and Lawrence-

I looked into this technology and was impressed with the concept, but
disappointed at the cost of the unit ($27.50 each for a minimum of
10, down to $8.50 if you can afford $62,000 for 7200 units). If
people can't afford to plant trees how will they afford this? It
seems like a rich man's scheme to get funding for his product though
the guise of humanitarian work. I do agree that this is a great idea
and replicable with the real world in mind.

Too expensive for aid work, OK for homeowners, not for farms.

I think your idea for using old tires and soda bottles is great,

tin cans and aluminum and steel soda and beer cans, no bottles, plastic or glass (hazards to wildlife)

Lawrence. A design that uses waste products from local areas is
always preferrable to manufactured gizmos. I was thinking of a

This is a job for appropriate technology.
Search Appropedia (appropedia.org) for existing devices and applications, ideas and RFI.

There are probably many other manufactured products that could be recycled for this use. Industrial products and equipment should not be overlooked as that might be more durable and better made and can be found at industrial recycling centers and scrapyards that recycle more than metal (most do). Food service and restaurant supply companies might have things that can be used.

Two other materials might be worth considering:
1) Spray on insulating foam, nontoxic, UV resistant, waterproof and sets up very tough and hard. This could be formed into the proper shapes which could include a water reservoir and be covered with
heavy gauge metal (aluminum) foil or mylar plastic or painted.
2) Fired or non-fired clay devices, glazed or non-glazed (they could fire and glaze them in their wood-fired cook stoves and ovens while cooking food; using the heat for two purposes - spread out over a year, they could fire a lot of condensation collectors, all sizes of them -
do the bigger ones in big wood fired bake ovens or roasting pits.
With clay you could shape them exactly as needed. With sun-baking or no firing them might hold together long enough to get the seedling off to a healthy start then fall apart and become part of the soil mix around the plant. I am thinking of some sort of waterproof adobe material that will hold together without coming apart after the first rain or a few months of condensation collection. Maybe coat the devices with some sort of waterproof nontoxic paint or, again, cover them with aluminum foil or mylar (that would probably do the trick and goive the device the needed longevity).

3) Combine 1) and 2) strategically.


design using corrugated tin roofing with lots of nails like spines as
condensers,

That's a good idea, recycled galvanized roofing. Cut pieces into squares with a hole in the center and slice through one side of the donut hole so you can remove it from the plant without damaging branches or leaves or if it becomes too big to go through the hole.
Puncture the tin (in the valleys, from the sky side not the soil side) with a sharp punch then turn it over and insert nails into the holes from the burr side (opposite from the entry point of the punch) - size the hole so the nail will fit tight and not work its way out - this will leave small water passages to allow flow from the collection side with nails sticking up, through the tin and into the ground below. You would also get some condensation on the bottom (soil) side too.

or better yet steel tubes (maybe not so readily
available). The donut shape is good, though it could be any shape
as long as the condensation is directed to the root zone.

Tall aluminum drink cans - they could be bought from scrapyards that buy them for recycling -
tall beer cans
iced tea cans
energy drink cans
electrolyte drink cans
fruit drink cans
- and more

You could add them to the sheets of galvanized roofing attaching them with nails to the tops of the ridges using a long punch or drift with a clip on one end to hold a nail head - this way you 1) attach the can to the tin 2) punch a hole in its bottom and in the tin 3) you have the nail entering the soil serving to break surface tension at the hole and help wick moisture into the soil


Surface area is an important part of the design. If you look at the
Waterboxx, it has ridges like a thistle leaf. Metal would be the
best material, as it tends to cool more and keep that temp longer

You could easily duplicate that very easily and cheaply - not spend much money and have a lot more fun.

than plastic. Stones also work well, especially angular ones used as
a mulch or stacked high to the windward side of a tree seedling.
Fog screens made of shade fabric will also trap moisture in windy
areas, and serve as little micro-shelters for the plants.

Excellent.

The concept is atmospheric moisture harvesting, which may be
accomplished through many techniques. The temperature differential
between a material and the air causes condensation, which then is
trapped and fed to a waiting plant or storage. Milk thistles have
evolved to do this wonderfully, along with 1000's if other dry
coastal species. Recognizing this pattern, we can plant nurse
species that will condense dew, like Casaurina and Acacia (small or
needle like leaves= lots of surface area) . Using nature's own
design will be the best long-term solution.

Squash does this magnificently. It will thrive in near drought. Okra too.




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