permaculture

[Jono Neiger <neiger@csld.edu>]

I have a design firm and offer design services (and land stewardship and
implementation) to people in many settings.  I think there is a need for
permaculturists to bring ourselves to the table with other professionals,
particularly designers. We need to be working with and influencing
architects, LA's, engineers, plumbers, electricians, teachers, farmers... As
David Holmgren wrote some time ago we dont need to carve ourselves out as a
separate profession. There isn't the time or need to create the structures
and beauracracy for a new profession. We need to insinuate permaculture
perspectives, ethics, and strategies *into* these other professions. And
thats happening. Many people are taking the ideas and bringing it into their
classrooms, farm fields, design work... I gave a presentation at an
engineers and architects professional training. Most were very snooty about
the ideas and couldn't care less. But there were more than a few that got
it. The other aspect is we have a larger, more whole systems perspective and
can facilitate a team of professionals maybe more wrapped up in their own
specialty.

Architects and (maybe) engineers are looking for what is 'green'. They
really, for the most part, dont know. Its an opportune time to get in there
and make sure its not all greenwash. LEED was meant to be just a beginning
(that from Bill Reed; kudos to his work getting it going and trying to lead
to the next level). Right now- for landscapes- its the 'Sustainable Sites
Initiative'. A decent start to applying standards to landscape but
permaculture was dropped from the recent version. There's mere token mention
of food production and functional landscapes. There more about preserving
views (to create a 'sustainable' landscape!) that about food in the current
standards. There's work to be done...

As far as clients. I find myself bending towards wealthy clients because
thats where the money is. In some ways it might be like working for the
military... Is it a leverage point? Sometimes, sometimes not. Wealthier
clients can also 'subsidize' the others. It takes real effort to make time
for less wealthy clients, keep a diversity of work going, and to be doing
the service work in communities. Its not an easy balance. Demonstration
sites can be a part of that. I myself use my land as a learning laboratory,
trial site, place to bring prospective or current clients, a place to show
anyone what a small homestead designed with permaculture principles could
look like etc...

For the Earth

Jono
Northeast U.S.

******************
Jono Neiger
Regenerative Design Group
308 Main St, Suite 2C
Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301
413-658-7048
www.regenerativedesigngroup.com

Conway School of Landscape Design
Graduate Program in Sustainable Landscape Planning & Design
www.csld.edu

PINE; Permaculture Institute of the Northeast
www.thepine.org




On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>wrote:

> What I see most landscape architects doing is infill for architectural
> projects with neither group looking for sustainable outcomes.  If the two
> disciplines were combined it would make a world of good sense.
>  Permaculture
> combines both landscape and building in a whole system approach that is
> looking to fulfill the ethical requirements of permaculture; these ethical
> considerations do not exist, as far as I know, in either architecture or
> landscape architecture.
>
> What I am seeing in the architectural field is an attempt to green up with
> the Leed Certification program which to me is another cagey way to separate
> the client from his pocket book.  Energy efficiency should be required of
> all construction as it is mandated by permaculture ethics.
>
> I live in a permaculture design and tried to be a demonstration site for a
> short time until I realized that all of my time was spent teaching clueless
> tourists and the place was going to hell.  While I long for demonstration
> sites I wouldn't wish it on anyone unless they figure a way to make enough
> money from eco-tourists to pay for their time as well as afford to hire a
> full time tour guide.  This is what Bill Mollison wound up doing when
> Tyalgum was operating, and the tour guide did reasonable well with
> scheduling two tours a week.
>
> For my esthetic I believe that a functional pc design is incredible
> beautiful and part of that beauty is that it is messy like nature rather
> than ordered and Euclidian like humans.
>
> Scott Pittman
> Director
> Permaculture Institute
> www.permaculture.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Storvick [mailto:jstorvick@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:55 AM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Landscape architecture and permaculture design,
> differences, how to merge, where does one end and the other begin.
>
> This is a topic that has been on my mind for some time now.  Taking the PDC
> course was a life-changing event for me that was a catalyst for further
> educational forays.  At this point, I am back in college working towards my
> A.A.S. in Horticulture Technology - Landscape Design Specialization.  It
> has
> been an interesting experience comparing and contrasting methods and
> approaches between permaculture and landscape design, and I agree - while
> there is considerable overlap, there is much that can and needs to be
> reconciled between the two.
>
> Perhaps the primary difference between the two is the focus on either
> function (usefulness to humans, edible plants, whole systems design etc.)
> with permaculture, and form (aesthetics, ornamentalism, subordination to
> architectural forms) with landscape design.  This is not to say that
> permaculture gardens aren't beautiful, or that traditional landscapes never
> contain functional or edible systems, but the primary focus is different.
>
> My own goal is to run a company that does design/build of edible landscapes
> using permaculture methods and philosophy, while amping the aesthetic value
> and utilizing the technical skills I'm learning while studying traditional
> landscape design, sort of a mishmash between Mollison/Holmgren-style
> permaculture, edible forest gardening a la Jacke & Toensmeier, the Creasy &
> Kourik school of edible landscaping, and traditional garden design.
>
> On a side note - I feel like I hear way too often about "permaculture demo
> sites" that seem to exist mostly in people's imaginations, and way too
> little about what folks are doing on the ground on their own land for their
> own benefit.  I'm sure that having demo sites is wonderful for introducing
> people to permaculture concepts, but I figure the best "demo" one can offer
> is a functioning system that is in place and directly benefiting those
> on-site.  Live by example, right?  I'd rather eke out a decent living
> designing permaculture landscapes for people who are going to be eating
> from
> the trees I plant, than make a ton of money putting together a big
> demonstration site on a wealthy client's "see how eco-friendly I am"
> property that won't be used on a regular basis.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. <
> venaurafarm@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Just a few initial thoughts to try and start a new discussion thread:
> >
> > It would be worth using the best of both disciplines, especially for
> those
> > who offer any kind of landscaping services, where does landscape
> > architecture and related subfields end and permaculture begin or vice
> versa
> > or how to combine the best of both to practice permaculture and
> > eco-landscape architecture to the max. The disciplines are very different
> in
> > obvious ways, i.e. certified, bondable industrial landscape plans and on
> the
> > other hand permaculture designs to implement that work as well as their
> > landscape counterpart in every way, especially being aesthetically
> pleasing
> > and spiritually rewarding (Japanese landscapes, post-Colonial and Country
> > Life Movement English cottage gardens).
> >
> > For those offering services and are looking for substantial jobs for
> > clients who can afford them I would imagine there would be as many
> > customers for permaculture site design and implementation as there would
> be
> > for landscape design and installation. I hear from many permaculturists
> > getting involved in the consultation and design field
> > that they have found many wealthy clients who invest in raw land and want
> > to turn it into a permaculture demo site. The key phrase there is
> > "permaculture demonstration site".
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>
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