permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

This is Lee Flier's topic, but I'm sure we all appreciate your insight.  
Thanks, Deston.
 
And just to clarify my last post, my 2 acres per person figure was not a call 
to divy up the planet into 2 acre parcels, one for each person.  That was 
merely a resource base estimation.  I'm sure most of us will want to remain 
in more concentrated settings, as I've said in past writings.  Michael 
Pilarski's estimate of 2 acres was for a family, OR TWO even!  And I agree, 
you can do a lot with 2 acres.  But my point was that there is ample land for 
the world's population....IF we adopt ecologically sound lifestyles, like 
permaculture, utilize existing tools and technology to get us started, and 
redefine what wealth means, moving from a linear economics of scarcity to a 
cyclical life of abundance.
 
It's certainly a tall order, but it's a wonderful paradigm shift, and I hope 
more folks find it soon.
 
Tripp out.



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, deston denniston <abundancepc@gmail.com> wrote:


From: deston denniston <abundancepc@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] A small-scale farm report. Was: Large scale farming - 
sustainable? Profitable?
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:38 AM


Tripp,

I'm going through this right now, - and seeing a thread above about 'what
not to do' - so Ill tack a few comments on the board.

I own 16 acres in a temperate climate, and Ill have made it
sustainable in ??? years and profitable in 10 years.  I would do this
by encouraging the existing trees to grow and planting up food forests
with perennial polycrops for food, fiber, plant feed and
and fodder all around them....  I would use almost all hand tools + a
few battery powered tools equipment have interns.

When I moved onto my land I figured 2-3 years. but it was the first
time I'd done this kind of project...let me offer some
'dont do this' since I cant say what will work...


I'm going to skip all the stuff about water and soil, etc. cause I
figure most people that get this list already have thought
of that.

Especially if you are rural, a good vehicle that you can either wrench
yourself or can afford to get wrenched is extremely
important. after I bought my land I blew through four trucks in 3
years. any 'profit' I would have made went right to the
very problem I was trying to address and be liberated from. I still
don't have a running vehicle...and that leads to  item #2.

Make sure you get land with adequate shelter. cause if you don't have
adequate shelter and your stuck in inclement weather, your
going to spend allot of time getting to know the most insufferable
bastard you ever met. And that can be liberating for the soul,
but it doesn't get the farm started. you don't get much work done when
its 34 f , pouring rain and 6 hours of twilight a day.
especially if your huddled in a drafty, leaky barn trying to stay warm
with a toxic propane tank powered heater.


Don't pick a site with major competing capital projects if you can
avoid it. I picked keeping a truck running vs. building a house. Its
really
difficult to do either if you must do both.

Six years in and Ive almost (this summer will do it) got a livable
building on the site.

I picked my site when I had flush pockets, got a good price and
bought- but it took all I had, i didn't leave a pad to land on-

allways strive to keep something in reserve! you never know when you
will throw out your back or break a few fingers, and you
be glad you gave yourslef a cushion to fall on when that happens. you
will inevitable miss a season due to injury or illnes,
whether yours or a loved ones, and keeping that cushion to land on is
essential to maintaining the project when you have
to take than unanticipated break.

Ive got about 20 fruit trees, 16 acres of mixed alder and fir, and
water out the wazoo- 90 gallons a minute at 50#
pressure on my well. I could, according to county code, put 8 houses
on the well provided I had a holding tank of -
I think- 1200 gallons. anyhow, I fell in love with the site, but
bought too much- I would have been better off, in the short
run- to buy fewer acres (lower mortgage) and used the money for a more
reliable truck and perhaps some mechanics
classes at the community college... btw, 16 acres- I am looking for
land partners. its true. and that sanother thing that
I suspect will make difference- pooling resources with freinds.

Sad to say, but now, after 6 years with about 3 of it on and off
without a vehicle, I *almost* don't need a truck anymore,
a little jeep with a trailer would do it. But moving building
materials in and out, as well as ballast for foundations,
not to mention animal cages, etc...but I think I can get away with a
small trailer after this year.

the one thing I did do right: plant all the trees you can get your
hands on and learn to propagate. while Ive made a lot of
mistakes, my trees haven't. they get bigger and produce more every
year. I have been building guilds under the existing trees,
and after three years I can a difference in their health and the
quality of the fruit. Suspect this year, year 7, Ill break even.

I worked real estate for awhile. if a project breaks even on year
seven, its a money maker. If it breaks even by year ten,
its still profitable. So depite the sweat ive put into the project, im
not sweating it, so to speak.

plant trees if you can,a dn all that you can. Skeeter mentions he cant
get the tractor in most places after 3 years.
that's the right schedule and leads to great production. I got
2#-3#/sf out of about 600sf of my 4000sf 'protected' garden -
(fenced from deer, etc). its got several  trees/shrubs around it and
in it now - David Blume says that he got MINIMUMS of
3#/sf at his silicon valley project . So i have a long way to go
before i can talk much about what _to_ do. Im still beating
USDA yeilds for most of my produce though.

But I would certainly say avoid the above mistakes.

and invite friends to the land. the earth longs for us to dance, play,
sing, and touch it. so encourage that. I'm a fair scientist,
but perhaps a better human. And I suspect that's what we really need
to get this whole thing figured out - be good neighbors,
to all beings, and to be good humans.

good luck and keep us posted!

-- 
Deston Denniston, M.S., C.P.I.
Principal, Abundance Consulting LLC
www.abundancepermaculture.com
(360) 673-2124
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Tripp Tibbetts wrote:
But my point was that there is ample land for the world's
population....IF we adopt ecologically sound lifestyles, like permaculture,
utilize existing tools and technology to get us started, and redefine
what wealth means, moving from a linear economics of scarcity
to a cyclical life of abundance.
It's certainly a tall order, but it's a wonderful paradigm shift, and I
hope more folks find it soon.
========================
Very well said! Classic. That sums it up. I would add the detain about
the need for paying attention to local economies, in paprt to reduce the
energy factor, i.e. walk to work, walk to shopping or at least not
travel so far and have to spend so much time.
The following is a little off topic but pertinent to the discussion, at
lease as far as self help and local economies are concerned. After all,
this thread was about making a living on a permaculture farm (new name
for market farm).

Here's a new thread I started in Practical Machinist, talk about cross
pollination between entire forum sites! This idea applies to market
farmers too, informal trade associations. You might enjoy this:

Emphasis on production in American manufacturing.
New Republic/BB article.
Cory Doctorow
POSTED AT 9:50 PM December 20, 2009
Business • business • maker • management • manufacturing • mba • usa
http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/wagoner-henderson

"America can't make things because managers all learn finance instead of
production.

In a provocative New Republic article, Noam Scheiber proposes that the
collapse of American manufacturing is due to a general shift in
management to people who have MBAs, and to a shift in MBA programs to an
emphasis on finance instead of production:

Since 1965, the percentage of graduates of highly-ranked business
schools who go into consulting and financial services has doubled, from
about one-third to about two-thirds. And while some of these consultants
and financiers end up in the manufacturing sector, in some respects
that's the problem. Harvard business professor Rakesh Khurana, with whom
I discussed these questions at length, observes that most of GM's top
executives in recent decades hailed from a finance rather than an
operations background. (Outgoing GM CEO Fritz Henderson and his failed
predecessor, Rick Wagoner, both worked their way up from the company's
vaunted Treasurer's office.) But these executives were frequently numb
to the sorts of innovations that enable high-quality production at low
cost. As Khurana quips, "That's how you end up with GM rather than Toyota.""

Upper Mismanagement (via Making Light)
http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/wagoner-henderson

Previously:
* MBAs: Most Bloody Awful, Aussie radio documentary on the problem ...
* The MBA/B.Eng Rosetta Stone - Boing Boing
* People more prone to lie in email? - Boing Boing

Followups:
----------

LFLondon:
Solutions exist for machinists as they do for market farmers. One
possibility is 1) utilize PM to the max 2) independent machine shop
owners could form a loose association or informal trade association,
referring work within their group and promoting them selves
independently and as a group, that is if there are no significant legal
loopholes or insurance issues to overcome that would require their
having non profit corporate status.
The NC Central Piedmont Independent Machineshop Owners Association, for
example. Repeat, an informal association but with active participation
by its members.

And this thoughtful response from Arthur Marks (this is going to keep me
busy for a while!)

LFLondon
Cast Iron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: mid south USA
Posts: 376

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur.Marks:
LFLondon, I think one other issue is raised with your "solutions" post.
What, if any, human aspirations can guide a new business paradigm? If it
is single-heartedly money, I would argue that route is doomed for
failure. It will always be beat by someone with more too lose. "Active
participation by its members" is guided by more than profit. That has
always been my experience with "informal associations".

LFLondon:
As with market farmers, same with independent machinists and woodworking
shops; they are subject to competition from larger business entities,
imports flooding the market, a waning economy, hopefully no
innapropriate government regulation and neglect by potential customers
not willing to spend even to keep local economies alive. Motivation to
do this would come from a common interest in demonstrating their pride
in workmanship and their ability to offer a quality product at a
reasonable price to those willing to spend a little extra to keep money
in those local economies, consistent with American tradition.

I connected a Japanese woodworking tool vendor in Massachusetts who was
having considerable difficulty finding a shop to prototype and possibly
manufacture an invention of his with a job machine shop in Alamance
County NC. They worked out an R&D and production deal and began making
devices for my friend to sell through his company. It is a good product
and sales of it are good. One success among many similar ones that could
happen. Interstate and intrastate sales through Web marketing and mail
order is a first class way to sell but it is also extremely important to
generate local sales, walk in trade to generate local interest in new
ways to market a product and keep money exchanged between local
businesses. I think this is a direct and effective
way for self employed folks to generate income and remain in business
over the long haul, overcoming problems emerging in the national economy.

LFLondon