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  • From: Richard Wade <wade@coac.es>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Lupines and their uses.
  • Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:11:52 +0100


Dieter, When you speak of soy and such, are you talking about gardening,
or as a field crop? It seems that soy as an asian inmigrant was probably
more accustuned to more regular water that dryland farming here can give
it especially being a summer annual. How were they grown? And when were
they planted? When is your last frost date?
Also when you speak of lupins are you referring to tremoÇos?
I can colaborate what you said about the inoculation of the rizobium.
The Med. is full of all kinds of legumes and I would guess that the
bacteria are everywhere and have more than one way of surviving with out
hosts.
Richard (from Tarragona)

Dieter Brand wrote:
Larry,

About N-fixing bacteria, I live in a very isolated place which is surrounded by forests and which had been abandoned for decades before we took over. Still, I don’t need any inoculation for legumes that are traditionally grown in my area (favas; lupines; field-, green- and chick peas; bush-, pole- and dried beans, etc.) even though these haven’t been grown anywhere near my place for decades. The bacteria stay dormant in the soil until required to multiply for colonizing the roots of therespective legume.
I did try growing soya this year, which is not traditionally grown in this
area. The plants grew well, but the beans turned out only half the size of
the ones I had sown. I only became aware of the problem when it was too late
to check for the root nodules, but I think this indicates that the plants
didn’t fix enough N. I will try again to coax the soya beans into growing a
little bigger by “natural means”. If it means that it won’t work without
inoculation, I probably give up on the idea of growing soya. Would be a
petty though, since Ispent much of my life in Japan and would very much like
to make my own tofu.

I don’t know if soil can be damaged by chemical farming to the extent that
one might not be able to grow legumes without inoculation, I somehow doubt it
though. Our hillside land has been badly abused by previous generations of
farmers, who were encouraged under the previous regime, the Salazar
dictatorship, to grow wheat everywhere, even on 40 degree slopes, so that
this region, the Alentejo in the South of Portugal, may become the
breadbasket of the country. Most of the topsoil eroded within a few years of
tilling the hills. On the upside, this being one of the poorest regions in
the whole of Europe, most of the small subsistence farmers were too poor to
buy synthetic fertilizers or other agrochemicals; which means that my land
probably never saw any chemicals and not even a tractor. The previous owner
still plowed with a donkey and a wooden contraption with iron teeth as a
plough.

Dieter Brand
Portugal

PS: When I cut the grass and weeds at the start of the dry season, I use as
much as I can for mulching the irrigated part of our land, the rest I use for
making compost. Mulch doesn’t decompose during the dryseason and poses an
unacceptable fire risk. For example, when we get enough rain in April, a
grassy mulch will decompose within less than a month. During the dry season,
the same mulch will not significantly decompose, even with some irrigation,
for six or more months.




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