permaculture

["Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>]

Your use of profanity to make your case is in my mind the last refuge of
scoundrels. Plus your response is full of inaccuracies and speculation
rather than direct knowledge of the situation.  See below....

 

Scott Pittman

Director

Permaculture Institute

www.permaculture.org

 

 

1. Group Effort: the Designers Manual is a group effort manuscript was

written and edited by Bill's x-wife: Reny Mia Slay. It was illustrated by

Andrew Jeeves. Do they get any money, royalties or credit ? where are they

now ? I heard Reny went broke and now drives a taxi.

 

It was not written by Reny it was hand written by Bill Mollison and then
transcribed by Reny from Bill's execrable handwriting.  Both Reny and Andrew
Jeeves are credited for their work, what they agreed on with Bill about
royalties is between them.  I'm sure that Reny collects royalties from
"Introduction to Permaculture", which she co-authored.  Whether or not they
went broke is not the subject of this conversation unless your point is that
Bill has taken all the money and left his illustrator, co-author,
bibliographer, typesetter, and others bereft!

 

2. Sourcing: There are precious few sources, or references for such a big,

dense book ? so, the filter of Bill's mind, then his dictation/colloboration

to Reny and to Andrew make this legal, but maybe not the most ethical way to

write such a designers manual. The contents of the manual are drawn from all

over the world, and rebranded "permaculture"

 

All knowledge is drawn from all over the world - so what is your point?  Are
you saying that if it is not an original thought then it shouldn't be
uttered without citation?  Bill has never dictated in his life as far as I
know but his collaboration with Reny and Andrew was not done through
coercion to my knowledge, and Bill has repeatedly stated that there is
nothing new in permaculture technology just a new way of thinking about
sustainable design.  Perhaps a reread of the DM would help you straighten
this out.

 

3. Inspirational not very educational: as an inspirational guidebook, a

pointer to future research directions, the Tagari Permaculture Designers

Manual is the Old Testament. its stands apart, a kind of keystone to the

Permaculture guild of books. However, as an actual Designers Manual, its not

that good. I realise for many this is heresy, but I know quite a few people

in Australia, that went through a long phase where they treated the PDM as a

manual, and quite frankly they are p%^ed off. Its full of factual

inaccuracy, half baked theories, poor references, and is indiosyncratic in

the extreme.

 

This seems a gratuitous swipe at Bill rather than serving any useful purpose
in this conversation.  I know "quite a few people in Australia", and the
U.S. for that matter who are grateful to Bill for starting this conversation
and are happy to use their own discretion and observation skills to guide
their designs.  Anyone who designs from a book doesn't really know what
design is anyway.

 

4. Tagari Farm the Reality: I went to Tagari Farm in Tyalgum in the mid 90s,

during the peak of that wave of Permaculture popularity, the Global Gardener

had followed-up In Grave Danger of Falling Foods on national TV in Australia

and the Designers Manual had just come out. The story I was told was that

something like 3000 species has been planted in something like 20 acres.

Already the ecosystems had signs of unbalance, bamboo running, sweat potato

spreading. Worse the damns - 30% was to be aquaculture - eventually sprung

leaks. The property Tagari in Tyalgum was eventually abadonded and is kind

of the skeleton in the closet, the crazy aunt in the attic of permaculture.

The Tyalgum farm was meant to embody, manifest the glories of the

Permaculture Bible (Designers manual) from the Prophet Bill. No doubt if

someone was crazy enough to buy the Tyalgum property for 2 million

Australian, Tagari in Tasmania would be in a much better financial

situation. http://www.tagari.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/web_version.pdf

 

Once again the language in this paragraph is full of scorn and sour grapes
and the information is not accurate.  I was here during the same period and
it was really starting to bloom.  The total property was closer to 150 acres
and Bill's little homestead was adjacent.  The primary problem I saw was the
project was to ambitious for the amount of labor and finance available. I am
curious what your personal issues are with Bill because nothing you have
stated in this rant are very convincing. 

 

4. Spanish and other language editions: why isnt there a Spanish translation

? My understanding was that someone made a verbal arrangement with Bill, did

the translation and had copies printed. Then there was some kind of dspute

with the Prophet and it came screeching to a halt, and the Spanish

translator went broke. These kinds of stories around copyright with

Bill/Tagari are legion.

 

Your are talking about the "Introduccion a la Permacultura" not the Design
Manual.  The Introduction is available in Spanish.  Your "understanding" is
incorrect.  

 

5. Permaculture Copyrighted - Tagari tried to Copyright and license the

actual WORD Permaculture. That would mean all of us, using or planning on

using Permaculture in marketing material would need to obtain (and

presumably) pay for a license. How many of the Copyright is good crowd have

a paid-up license for using the Word ?

 

Once again your information is incorrect!  Tagari was no part of this, and
it was Trademark not Copyright and if you would go to the library and borrow
a copy of the Designer's Manual, go to page IV you will see how this was
handled originally.

I have a paid up license for using the "Word" by dint of completing the 72
hour Permaculture Certification Course.  

 

I see no reason to respond to the rest of this verbiage except to agree with
you on respecting Evan.  Most of the remainder of your regurgitation has
been a reiteration of the same old conversation.  The main thing I get from
your bitterness is that Bill must have really hurt your feelings; get over
it you are not the first, second or last and Bill's lack of social skills
have nothing to do with his genius in putting together, along with David
Holmgrin, Reny Slay, and Andrew Jeeves an incredible tool for dealing with
all the problems we now face and which Bill was predicting and talking about
over 25 years ago.

 

   And that is "What the F$%K" I am talking about.