permaculture

[Ray Cirino <cobanation@yahoo.com>]

they will be the only thing to save water and build up nutrients. The way 
things are going if we don't pt them everywhere everything is screwed.

Ray Cirino,





818-834-7074

www.raycirino.net

www.waterwomanproject.org



The Great Challenges we now face as a species present the very opportunities 
that are giving birth to Ecological, Psychological, and Spiritual 
Sustainability.

--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Steve Read <steveread@free.fr> wrote:

From: Steve Read <steveread@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] swales vs. complete keyline design?
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 12:33 PM

What are the swales for, or the keyline? There are 100,000 techniques, often 
the skill is to knwo when NOT to use a technique or strategy.

Mind you I often only get half of these threads so this informtion may have 
been given.

SteveR
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring






>From april@permaculturevisions.com  Mon Aug 31 18:33:28 2009
Return-Path: <april@permaculturevisions.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 96AC94C01A; Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, 
MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,
        REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from mail.shoal.net.au (mail.shoal.net.au [203.79.20.12])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA414C018
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:33:14 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [125.168.36.202] (helo=[192.168.1.2])
        by mail.shoal.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
        (envelope-from <april@permaculturevisions.com>) id 1MiFQx-0005dV-7O
        for permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:33:12 +1000
Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 8.5.409 [270.13.73/2338]);
        Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:32:55 +1000
Message-ID: <4A9C4F97.3020400@permaculturevisions.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:32:55 +1000
From: A Sampson-Kelly <april@permaculturevisions.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
References: <mailman.1.1251739268.14176.permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1251739268.14176.permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-36583272======="
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: [permaculture] swaling versus keyline
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:33:28 -0000


--=======AVGMAIL-36583272======Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; 
format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On assessing efficiency of swaling instead of keyline (BTW you can do a 
combination and you can't ignore the effects of keypoints anyway),
much depends on the rainfall frequency and amount, soil type and 
vegetation type. 
If you have problem weeds too, this can be harder to manage with deep 
swaling,
so i guess a good analysis would need to include a range of vegetation 
and animals that will help maintain this area.

April S-Kelly permaculturevisions.com



<mailto:info@permaculturevisions.com>



permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
> Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
>       permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>       http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>       permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>       permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of permaculture digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: yet another rocket stove construction picture set (Jeff)
>    2. swales vs. complete keyline design? (John Fritz)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:35:14 -0600
> From: Jeff <toobeeorknottoobee@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] yet another rocket stove construction
>       picture set
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4A9AFEA2.6090105@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Very nice, thanks for sharing! Did you include a clean out on the burn 
> chamber or do you just reach from the feed tube to clean out? I have not 
> built one, but I'm itching. -Jeff
>
> negiliblek wrote:
>   
>> Built this one in NM to heat a shower floor (and perhaps the water too)... 
>>
>> ...it was my first large rocket stove!
>>
>> http://twobirdstone.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Since these pictures were taken, I've finished the hot water circuit too. 
>> I'll post 'em later if I can get to Internet access
>>
>>
>>
>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> Google command to search archives:
>> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:28:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Fritz <johnfritz77@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] swales vs. complete keyline design?
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <121902.78594.qm@web43136.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> ?
> As a practical, economic matter, it seems that, for me, incorporating 
> swales on contour makes more sense than to buy a 60 h.p. tractor and 
> keyline plow, or hire someone who has these implements and is adept at 
> using them.? The only unknown variable is the efficacy of keyline 
> landscaping, as a whole system,vs. swale earthworks on contour as a stand 
> alone strategy.? What would I be losing if I just used swales to retain 
> water in my soil, as opposed to the time and expense of having a complete 
> keyline design adapted to my rolling land??? In particular I am thinking 
> about the timeline of energy descent and the availability of a professional 
> keyline design several years out (five, maybe more years) as opposed to 
> obtaining the best swales that I can now afford, even if the contour lines 
> are less than perfectly plotted.? One other doubt that I have is the 
> resiliance (sp?) of the plowing done by a keyline chisel plow.? I have 
> never seen either a freshly
>  completed keyline design,?nor such a design after several years 
> completion.? One thing that is not clear to me is how the chisel plow lines 
> hold up to the natural erosion that would seem to occur over time.? Swales 
> seem to have more resiliancy as they are?made on gradual sweeping lines 
> that have vegetative protection, whereas keyline chisel plow lines appear 
> to be?akin to defiles in the soil and more prone to collapse due to erosion 
> over time...with a resulting need to replow the?contour lines.? Any 
> corrections to my intuition are welcomed.
> ?
> John Fritz, NW Arkansas.
>
>
>       
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 79, Issue 33
> ********************************************
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2336 - Release Date: 08/30/09 
> 17:51:00
>
>   

--=======AVGMAIL-36583272======Content-Type: text/plain; x-avgÎrt; 
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Description: "AVG certification"


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.73/2338 - Release Date: 08/31/09 
17:52:00

--=======AVGMAIL-36583272=======--