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  • From: "Mitch Triplett" <mtriplett@bctonline.com>
  • To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] new article: concerns about the way most people raise chickens
  • Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:32:55 -0700

Hi.

How many chickens per acre for the paddock system to be effective?

Mitch Triplett
Tri-Pearl Family Forest
Member - CCFFA/OSWA & OTFS
Associate Member - FSC

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Marjory
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:02 AM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] new article: concerns about the way most people
raise chickens

Hi Paul,

You wrote:
>
> Thanks Marjory! I had a lot of responses that thought it was
> terrible, so it's good to hear some positive feedback!
>
>

I wonder how much experience those people with negative feed back had.
Your article pretty much summarizes at least six years of
experimentation that we've done. And we've come to pretty much the same
conclusions. As much as I really enjoy the permie community, at this
stage in its development, there are more people who have read about
methods than actually done it. I've found the real world to be much
more challenging than most people would believe.
> Can you tell me a little about your chicken tractor experience?
>
>
Our first two chicken tractors were built out of 2" pvc. We painted the
pvc and did not have the collapsing problem you experienced. But the
pvc is not rugged enough to handle the day to day movement a tractor
system requires, and a corner here or there cracked. The tractors were
also built 8'x8'x2.5' which is too big. I can move them around by
myself, but it is not fun. We still use them, but they are in a
semi-permanent location and we use them as holding pens when the odd
need to segregate birds or animals comes up.

Since chicken tractors are touted as 'the thing" I figured I needed to
do more experimentation. I then built four smaller tractors out of
lightweight but strong cedar. They are approximately 3'x7' with a
sloping roof. On two of them we built in small rainwater collection
systems to collect water off the tractor roofs. I used them in the
orchard. I would put the tractor in about four locations to surround
each tree. I got really buff moving them every day. For chicken
tractors I found the following:

-they were a lot of work moving the the tractors each day.
-chickens do not do that good of a job weeding, especially grasses that
have their roots more than an inch below the soil level. Just throwing
grain out under the tree with a free range flock was about as effective.
-the savings in feed was not worth the trouble.
-it is very difficult to make a predator proof tractor (we since got
dogs to protect the poultry).
-you have to be very careful with climatic concerns; how hot or cold is
it? and how is the tractors oriented to make sure the birds are OK?
For example, the past two months we've had almost every day about 105
degrees. Chickens confined to a small tractor would be absolutely
miserable or dead.
-the chickens didn't get nearly as many bugs being in a tractor.

We still use the tractors for specific jobs, and having extra pens
around is very handy. But overall I don't think they are that useful.
I can send you photos of both sets of the tractors we built. .


> Have you decided on what to plant in your paddocks?
>
>
Mulberrys of course. Lambsquarters - I belivee my young flock of brown
leghorns survived the last harsh winter because of the lambquarters
seeds - not much else available. Sugar hackberry trees. Millet. I am
always on the lookout for more things to plant for them. I am growing
honey locust trees for their long pods - mainly as a 'sweet feed' for
the cows, but I am wondering if the chickens would enjoy it if it we
ground up for them. I love perennials or re-seeding annuals. Even
though we have a totally free range flock, I am still planting these
trees in the areas they roost and consider 'home base'

>> I also use the ambitions of my young son and his BB gun to keep the
>> chickens away from the house.
>>
>
> Actually, a steel BB doesn't really hurt the chickens, well, maybe thier
pride. It just bounces off thier feathers (he has never hit thier heads
yet). It is a small Daisy gun - nothing serious. and it only took a few
weeks of shooting and making a fuss for them to get the idea. We just
didn't want the chickens shitting all over the sidewalk and porch, which as
you know, a free range flock will do. To be totally honest, the BB gun
shooting of the chickens got to be fun for the whole family. We never
bothered them in any other places and they would come and eat feed out of
our hands when they were where they were supposed to be. they learned, and
since then they've taught the new birds that come into the flock. Chickens
are smart.

It is a trip, yes? Our primary objective with all of our livestock is
to set up systems where we don't have to buy any feed. For quite a few
years I was pretty discouraged as chickens are supposed to be the
easiest part of the system and we kept having problems. Well, live and
learn. We still have the problem of free range chickens ripping up
mulch in places, and of them eating up seeds and cover crops, but with
our small flock it is not that big of an issue. And it is Easter all of
the time getting the eggs. So although the free range system is good
and it meets our primary objective of not having to buy feed, I heartity
agree that a well done rotating paddock system with perennial food
sources is the optimal way to go.







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