permaculture

[Albert Johnston <johnston.albertg@gmail.com>]

Paul,

Your email may be the most important bit of information I will read this
year. You have probably saved me thousands of dollars and countless
headaches as I have been thinking of ideas for a chicken based homestead.
The paddock idea is wonderful.

Thank you so much for all the work you have done. And your willingness to
share.

There are thousand of Americans that are taking up chicken and poultry and
hopeful they will read all of the information available.

Personally my dream is a  chicken, bee, and some fruit system. With a zone
one to take advantage of the rich composted chicken manures.

As for the birds. Mulberry, wild plum, wild hawthorn, sweet potato. Many
many berries and ground cover including sorghum. I am very much looking
forward to that. In the mean time I plan on doing a quick cycle of meat
birds in a controlled environment. Feed'm and eat'm arrangement with a
friend.

Thanks again, and keep posting.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Marjory <forestgarden@gvtc.com> wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
> You wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Marjory!  I had a lot of responses that thought it was
> > terrible, so it's good to hear some positive feedback!
> >
> >
>
> I wonder how much experience those people with negative feed back had.
> Your article pretty much summarizes at least six years of
> experimentation that we've done.  And we've come to pretty much the same
> conclusions.  As much as I really enjoy the permie community, at this
> stage in its development, there are more people who have read about
> methods than actually done it.  I've found the real world to be much
> more challenging than most people would believe.
> > Can you tell me a little about your chicken tractor experience?
> >
> >
> Our first two chicken tractors were built out of 2" pvc.  We painted the
> pvc and did not have the collapsing problem you experienced.  But the
> pvc is not rugged enough to handle the day to day movement a tractor
> system requires, and a corner here or there cracked.  The tractors were
> also built 8'x8'x2.5' which is too big.  I can move them around by
> myself, but it is not fun.  We still use them, but they are in a
> semi-permanent location and we use them as holding pens when the odd
> need to segregate birds or animals comes up.
>
> Since chicken tractors are touted as 'the thing" I figured I needed to
> do more experimentation.  I then built four smaller tractors out of
> lightweight but strong cedar.  They are approximately 3'x7' with a
> sloping roof.  On two of them we built in small rainwater collection
> systems to collect water off the tractor roofs.  I used them in the
> orchard.  I would put the tractor in about four locations to surround
> each tree.  I got really buff moving them every day.  For chicken
> tractors I found the following:
>
> -they were a lot of work moving the the tractors each day.
> -chickens do not do that good of a job weeding, especially grasses that
> have their roots more than an inch below the soil level.   Just throwing
> grain out under the tree with a free range flock was about as effective.
> -the savings in feed was not worth the trouble.
> -it is very difficult to make a predator proof tractor (we since got
> dogs to protect the poultry).
> -you have to be very careful with climatic concerns; how hot or cold is
> it? and how is the tractors oriented to make sure the birds are OK?
> For example, the past two months we've had almost every day about 105
> degrees.  Chickens confined to a small tractor would be absolutely
> miserable or dead.
> -the chickens didn't get nearly as many bugs being in a tractor.
>
> We still use the tractors for specific jobs, and having extra pens
> around is very handy.  But overall I don't think they are that useful.
> I can send you photos of both sets of the tractors we built.  .
>
>
> > Have you decided on what to plant in your paddocks?
> >
> >
> Mulberrys of course.  Lambsquarters - I belivee my young flock of brown
> leghorns survived the last harsh winter because of the lambquarters
> seeds - not much else available.  Sugar hackberry trees.  Millet.  I am
> always on the lookout for more things to plant for them.  I am growing
> honey locust trees for their long pods - mainly as a 'sweet feed' for
> the cows, but I am wondering if the chickens would enjoy it if it we
> ground up for them.  I love perennials or re-seeding annuals.  Even
> though we have a totally free range flock, I am still planting these
> trees in the areas they roost and consider 'home base'
>
> >>  I also use the ambitions of my young son and his BB gun to keep the
> >> chickens away from the house.
> >>
> >
> > Actually, a steel BB doesn't really hurt the chickens, well, maybe thier
> pride.  It just bounces off thier feathers (he has never hit thier heads
> yet).  It is a small Daisy gun - nothing serious.  and it only took a few
> weeks of shooting and making a fuss for them to get the idea.  We just
> didn't want the chickens shitting all over the sidewalk and porch, which as
> you know, a free range flock will do.  To be totally honest, the BB gun
> shooting of the chickens got to be fun for the whole family.  We never
> bothered them in any other places and they would come and eat feed out of
> our hands when they were where they were supposed to be.  they learned, and
> since then they've taught the new birds that come into the flock.  Chickens
> are smart.
>
> It is a trip, yes?  Our primary objective with all of our livestock is
> to set up systems where we don't have to buy any feed.  For quite a few
> years I was pretty discouraged as chickens are supposed to be the
> easiest part of the system and we kept having problems.  Well, live and
> learn.  We still have the problem of free range chickens ripping up
> mulch in places, and of them eating up seeds and cover crops, but with
> our small flock it is not that big of an issue.  And it is Easter all of
> the time getting the eggs.  So although the free range system is good
> and it meets our primary objective of not having to buy feed, I heartity
> agree that a well done rotating paddock system with perennial food
> sources is the optimal way to go.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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