permaculture

[Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>]

In general, I've decided that if you can easily connect your energy system to 
the grid and avoid batteries, that's the way to go.  Batteries have a high 
embedded energy, though they are recycled.  If lithium batteries ever become 
affordable for home systems, that would be a big improvement.  However, the 
grid has the potential to even out the supply and demand of energy, making 
renewables more viable.
 
On the other hand, your system is very small (a little smaller than mine), 
and the cost of the equipment required to hook up to the grid may not be 
worth it in your climate.
 
As for your fridge (I also have a small Nova-Kool), the hot temperatures must 
consume a lot of the energy that your panels produce (mine uses about 240 
watt hours/day).  You might want to install a low voltage disconnect to 
protect your batteries.  Bringing the batteries indoors would extend their 
life and increase their capacity, as well.
 
I hope this helps,
 
Rain
 
 



>From raincascadia@yahoo.com  Tue May 12 13:33:27 2009
Return-Path: <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id F2F554C01A; Tue, 12 May 2009 13:33:26 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com
        [209.191.124.131])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 171B64C00D
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Tue, 12 May 2009 13:33:18 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (qmail 5251 invoked by uid 60001); 12 May 2009 17:33:08 -0000
Message-ID: <119128.1853.qm@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
X-YMail-OSG: 
1dEsj9QVM1kk3SK5QXjOCmr4RDFDnG2d99KCnjygFyNGGq3p081Uu5oKPbt5p.oX85Obw9ucyga_vsmDi1r0bOAKhG1pCB_NCvxpfQo407lXt6m9YUsStlU0WR4F7C3d5IMG7xxq0V41uNfuyM6Ukq79l.06_MJaUc5EBcP2iIjvuLvXKHHZl.NcWRVPsmBFPRSGgny2UwDAc4fg3tygjcHjqVxsZmPNFvparR1pb6FbA48K9QdKaoPt7J9JCbebeD9tT8Z7MOkYLKYG7RvaGm_sybTaBaYIH9TaHLj3se0NsNphAj5zDK9_8jzZNBLSTPmj
Received: from [69.85.162.150] by web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP;
        Tue, 12 May 2009 10:33:08 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.2.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: [permaculture] bamboo and black walnut
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:33:27 -0000

Bamboo is listed as a member of my black walnut guild and as far as I know 
there is no problem with juglone.  This could vary with the species.  I have 
pictures of black bamboo (I think) groves under black walnuts and black 
locusts at Jude Hobbs' previous residence.  You probably have another problem.
 
Rain



>From spsherm@msn.com  Tue May 12 13:51:00 2009
Return-Path: <spsherm@msn.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 6143F4C00D; Tue, 12 May 2009 13:51:00 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.5 required=5.0 tests=MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,
        REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from blu0-omc4-s23.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s23.blu0.hotmail.com
        [65.55.111.162])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06A94C015
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Tue, 12 May 2009 13:50:51 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from BLU0-SMTP79 ([65.55.111.135]) by blu0-omc4-s23.blu0.hotmail.com
        with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);
        Tue, 12 May 2009 10:50:50 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [71.212.218.159]
X-Originating-Email: [spsherm@msn.com]
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP790E11E7085CCC5AA42125A7600@phx.gbl>
Received: from [192.168.0.4] ([71.212.218.159]) by
        BLU0-SMTP79.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with
        Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 12 May 2009 10:50:50 -0700
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:51:07 -0600
From: Stephen Sherman <spsherm@msn.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
References: <518405.63076.qm@web38105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <518405.63076.qm@web38105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2009 17:50:50.0812 (UTC)
        FILETIME=[303C5FC0:01C9D32A]
Subject: Re: [permaculture] batteries vs grid-tie
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:51:00 -0000

I can't seem to find the original post, but here are a few thoughts...

Batteries add to the cost of a system, but they provide power when the
grid is down. Not only from the power they store, but also because many
(perhaps most) grid connect/battery-less inverters won't invert if the
grid is down, even if your PVs/wind are making electricity. So it really
depends on what you want out of your system. Do you need electricity
when the grid is down? Do you need your AE system to act as a UPS for
some critical equipment? If so, you probably will need some batteries on
the system and an inverter designed to use them.

Personally, I think having some batteries and grid interconnect is the
ideal, in that it allows you to use the grid to take the extra power,
and still allows you some electric power when the grid is down. At least
it is a good solution for my situation. YMMV

I'd be very cautious about bringing any batteries indoors into a living
space or connected to one. Even the sealed batteries can pose a serious
health and fire hazard if something ever goes wrong. Better to construct
a separate space for them if you need to shield them from weather extremes.


Rain Tenaqiya wrote:
> In general, I've decided that if you can easily connect your energy system 
> to the grid and avoid batteries, that's the way to go.  Batteries have a 
> high embedded energy, though they are recycled.  If lithium batteries ever 
> become affordable for home systems, that would be a big improvement.  
> However, the grid has the potential to even out the supply and demand of 
> energy, making renewables more viable.
>
> On the other hand, your system is very small (a little smaller than mine), 
> and the cost of the equipment required to hook up to the grid may not be 
> worth it in your climate.
>
> As for your fridge (I also have a small Nova-Kool), the hot temperatures 
> must consume a lot of the energy that your panels produce (mine uses about 
> 240 watt hours/day).  You might want to install a low voltage disconnect to 
> protect your batteries.  Bringing the batteries indoors would extend their 
> life and increase their capacity, as well.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
> Rain
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Google command to search archives:
> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>
>
>
>