permaculture

[ed sarten <esarten@yahoo.com>]

Thankyou for the information,There are a few llamas south of here but not 
north.I,m always trying to find things that might adapt to our climate.I do 
manage to get chickens & ducks through the winter with light bulbs in their 
coop.Goats,bison and yaks make it with little shelter.I have seen scottish 
highlander cattle make it with a regular barn.Some how they raised horses 
here for the gold rush around the turn of the last century, nobody has seen a 
horse in this village in over 60 years though,I find old horseshoes all the 
time.New interest in small agriculture is happening up here due to the fact 
that food comes from thousands of miles away and we do have the highest food 
prices in the western hemisphere.If it were not for hunting,fishing 
etc.people could not survive and all of rural Alaska Is shrinking in 
population as we speak paying up to 9 dollars a gallon for gas.We use gas now 
to hunt& fish.

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Nancy Frank <oppty@mac.com> wrote:
From: Nancy Frank <oppty@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] llamas
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:53 AM

I'm not sure how many animals, save ones designed in the arctic, can  
take -50 degrees.  I don't think they would likely be up to it.  Here  
in Wisconsin, we get -25, and although they have a thick bed of straw  
to nestle into, and a solid shelter to keep them out of the wind,  
mine usually shiver quite a bit.  I would worry about frostbite,  
particularly to the ears with deep cold like that.

It might be possible if you had very heavily wooled animals and they  
were not shorn.  I'm sure some other llama breeders in Alaska could  
give you better information.  Check out the International Lama  
Association website and see if you can connect with someone up there.

In a normal habitat for llamas, the temperature variability not  
terribly severe.  A wide range may be zero to 80 F.  We challenge  
them here with -20 to 95+.  I keep barns doors closed in the cold,  
and fans on all summer.

Nancy

On Oct 22, 2008, at 10:08 PM, ed sarten wrote:

> can a llama take -50 degrees farenheit?Ed Ruby,Alaska
>
> --- On Wed, 10/22/08, SArjuna@aol.com <SArjuna@aol.com> wrote:
> From: SArjuna@aol.com <SArjuna@aol.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] llamas
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 6:16 PM
>
>      So now I've come to your post about llamas, which I had never
> considered
> having.   Hmmm.   Can llamas be trained to pull a cart or buggy  
> that one
> rides in?    Or just led as pack animals?
>      Shivani
>
> In a message dated 9/23/08 12:22:44 PM,
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes:
>>
>>> In response to your push carts and bicycle carts, I thought about
>>> other animals, like horses.  I know that horses eat far too much
to
>>> make them realistic for most, and are not sustainable in the long
>>> run.  But llamas are MUCH more efficient with what they eat, can
>>> carry more per pound of body weight than a horse (a horse weighing
>>> 1,000 pounds will carry about 210 pounds, llamas weighing 300
pounds
>>> will carry about 50-75 pounds).  They also keep brush down, as
>>> browsers rather than only grass grazers, provide delightful wool
for
>>> spinning, knitting and weaving warm winter outerwear and sweaters,
>>> and are friendly as companions.  Just a thought.
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites,
> no registration required and great graphics – check it out!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol? 
> redir=
> http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Google command to search archives:
> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Google command to search archives:
> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring






>From lakinroe@silcom.com  Thu Oct 23 21:57:08 2008
Return-Path: <lakinroe@silcom.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 804CA4C015; Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:57:08 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from zrelay02.impulse.net (zrelay02.impulse.net [207.154.70.52])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1BD4C00F
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:56:53 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by zrelay02.impulse.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047CD5BAA6;
        Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
Received: from zrelay02.impulse.net ([127.0.0.1])
        by localhost (zrelay02.impulse.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
        port 10024)
        with ESMTP id kaN6+aewd8GX; Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from webmail.impulse.net (lavender.impulse.net [207.154.70.11])
        by zrelay02.impulse.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5125BAAF;
        Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from webmail.impulse.net (zlmtp.impulse.net [207.154.70.30])
        by webmail.impulse.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0703E18065;
        Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: lakinroe@silcom.com
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: 
<2101437472.3779281224813409960.JavaMail.root@lavender.impulse.net>
In-Reply-To: <20081023153045.GDOX8.102040.imail@eastrmwml28>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Originating-IP: [207.154.103.66]
X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.9_GA_2533.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF2.0
        (Win)/5.0.9_GA_2533.RHEL5_64)
Cc: Phil Vergamini <phil@inetserv.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Credit Union Info for Financial PC event
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:57:08 -0000

hi robert
   PCU, www.pcuonline.org , does loans and savings in 50 states , if you go 
to the website you can go download and print the latest newsletter to take ,
    thanks wes roe Board member Permaculture Credit Union
ps if you have an address we could priority mail some PCU pamphlets to you or 
the organizers for the Financial PC

----- Original Message -----
From: bwaldrop@cox.net
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Cc: "Phil Vergamini" <phil@inetserv.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:30:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Reminder of Financial Permaculture event internet 
access

I will do as you request.  Do you have a PDF that I could copy and take to 
the event for the literature table?

 I am not the primary organizer, I am one of the two presenters on local food 
coops.

Does the PCU do business outside of the state of New Mexico?

RMW
---- Phil Vergamini <phil@inetserv.com> wrote:
> Robert-
>       Thanks for the information regarding your Financial
> Permaculture event.  I was surprised and disappointed to discover
> that such a large Financial Permaculture event was being held without
> any representation from or information about the Permaculture Credit
> Union (PCU),  (http://www.pcuonline.org).
>
>       The PCU is an invisible structure, a financial structure,
> created to support the permaculture community. It is based on the
> earth care ethics of Permaculture: care of the earth, care of the
> people, and sharing the excess.  The PCU opened its doors in August
> of 2000 and has grown in a sustainable manner with both federal and
> state oversight.  We have been "Transforming Our Financial System ...
>  From the Bottom Up" since then.
>
>       The PCU presently has close to $4 million in assets that it
> makes available as loans to its over 1000 members.  It encourages
> earth friendly loans through reduced rates for items like high
> mileage vehicles, student loans, water catchment systems, home energy
> systems, including solar, wind, micro hydro, and energy conservation.
>
>       Recently, we began a cooperative project with the Santa Fe
> Farmers Market Institute, to make small, low interest loans to small
> organic farmers in northern New Mexico.  We could do this for almost
> any farmers market.
>
>       Please announce our existence and contact information to your
> event attendees.  Web site: http://www.pcuonline.org
>         Phone:  Toll Free: (866) 954-3479; or (505) 954-3479
>
>       Thanks-
>
>       -Phil Vergamini
>        PCU Member, Account #1
>
>
>
>
> >Below is a reminder from the Solari Network of the Financial
> >Permaculture event that starts tomorrow (Friday, Oct 24) and runs
> >through next Tuesday.  If you aren't attending, you can follow the
> >event through the various event blogs, linked below.
> >
> >Bob Waldrop, www.bobwaldrop.net
> >Oklahoma Food Coop, www.oklahomafood.coop
> >Barking Frogs Permaculture, www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org
> >
> >=============================================> >Transforming Our Financial 
> >System ... From the Bottom Up
> >=============================================> >
> >The central bankers of the world are planning to meet in Europe to
> >redesign the financial system from the top down. From Friday, October
> >24 through Tuesday, October 28, a diverse group of permaculturists,
> >entrepreneurs, community leaders, and investment strategists are
> >gathering in Hohenwald, Tennessee, to transform the financial system
> >from the bottom up, contributing to efforts that are spreading
> >virally, creating liquidity and economic health.
> >
> >============================================> >Get the Details on the 
> >Financial Permaculture Conference
> >============================================> >
> >http://www.financialpermaculture.com
> >http://solari.com/events/financial-permaculture/
> >
> >For those of you who will not be joining us in person at the
> >conference, we hope you will join us in the blogosphere -- by either
> >posting at your blog, commenting at one of ours, referring our blog to
> >your network (www.solari.com/blog/), or just enjoying the
> >discussion.  See all http://www.financialpermaculture.org for daily
> >updates and participation.
> >
> >Here are some recent blog posts to inspire your participation:
> >
> >Financial Permaculture in Hohenwald - Final Schedule
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p38
> >
> >Principles of Financial Permaculture
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p30
> >
> >Solari Circles - An Intro for Financial Permaculture Students
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p18
> >
> >Can Our Own Communities Serve as Financial Safe Havens in Troubled
> >Times?
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p06
> >
> >Financial Permaculture - Meet the Finance Team
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p74
> >
> >Financial Permaculture - Meet the Food Coop Leaders
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p17
> >
> >We Welcome Your Help: Small Business Structures
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p14
> >
> >Financial Permaculture - Got a Comment?
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p34
> >
> >====================================> >Join the Solari Prayer Team by 
> >Teleconference
> >====================================> >
> >I would also like to invite you to join our Solari Prayer Team by
> >phone conference line for short periods of group prayer before and
> >during the conference itself. We will focus on the goals of the
> >conference and the many people who are attending in various
> >capacities. The prayer will be led in the Christian tradition, and we
> >always invite participants on our prayer calls to take part in a way
> >that is true to their own religious or spiritual path and
> >understanding.
> >
> >Here are the details on how to join us:
> >http://solari.com/blog/?p35
> >
> >=========================> >2008: Live in San Francisco DVD
> >=========================> >
> >If you haven't had the opportunity yet, you can watch a video clip of
> >our latest DVD, 2008: Live in San Francisco. This live presentation
> >highlights material from the Solari Audio seminar: Positioning Your
> >Assets for Growth in Uncertain Times.
> >
> >Watch the video clip:
> >http://solari.com/store/audio-seminars/live_in_san_francisco/
> >
> >-- Catherine Austin Fitts
> >_______________________________________________
> >permaculture mailing list
> >permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >Google command to search archives:
> >site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>
> --
> Phil Vergamini, Santa Fe, NM
> mailto:phil@inetserv.com          http://www.inetserv.com/
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Google command to search archives:
> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring