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  • From: Nancy Frank <oppty@mac.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pre-design for collapse
  • Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:54:52 -0500

I would certainly agree with you. I just wanted to put information out there for others to consider who may be in a different setting.

You may be surprised at the number of llamas in Oklahoma. Some of the biggest national events in the llama world take place at the Heritage Center!

Nancy

On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Robert Waldrop wrote:

Llamas are a great resource, and we did discuss
horses some and animal traction in general.
However, our focus was on what could happen here
on an emergency basis if we were in a collapse
situation. Oklahoma has a lot of horses, but not
many of them are trained to pull wagons, and they
aren't in Oklahoma City, and there aren't many
wagons. It seemed easier to us to use the
available urban resource -- bicycles -- and to
build bicycle carts. If this were to go on
indefinitely, we would probably end up reinventing
the Conestoga wagon and training cattle as oxen.
We don't have many llamas in the state, and it
would take a long while to raise enough to do all
the requisite hauling.

Bob Waldrop, OKC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Frank" <oppty@mac.com>
To: "permaculture"
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pre-design for
collapse


Just one more thing, and then I will go on with
my day. The manure
produced from llamas is high in nitrogen, and
does not have to be
composted before it is applied to a garden. It
doesn't burn the plants.

Nancy

On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Nancy Frank wrote:

In response to your push carts and bicycle
carts, I thought about
other animals, like horses. I know that horses
eat far too much to
make them realistic for most, and are not
sustainable in the long
run. But llamas are MUCH more efficient with
what they eat, can
carry more per pound of body weight than a
horse (a horse weighing
1,000 pounds will carry about 210 pounds,
llamas weighing 300 pounds
will carry about 50-75 pounds). They also keep
brush down, as
browsers rather than only grass grazers,
provide delightful wool for
spinning, knitting and weaving warm winter
outerwear and sweaters,
and are friendly as companions. Just a
thought.

I am learning a great deal from this list, and
appreciate the
information.

Nancy in Wisconsin

On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:02 PM, Robert Waldrop
wrote:

One final note. . . we had a potluck meal at
lunch, and I always think that potlucks are
great
ideas for one day events. That way one person
isn't consumed with cooking/preparing for the
group, all can participate, and all take
responsibility for the food. Table fellowship
is
important.

Melbourne is a great city, I was there a while
in
1972, staying with a Greek family in Clifton
Hill.
We heated our room with charcoal briquets that
we
bought from a guy who came by once a week with
a
push cart loaded with big sacks of briquets.
I'm
sure things have changed a lot since then.
Pushcarts will be useful though. we didn't
spend
a lot of time on it, but we did talk briefly
about
using handcarts to move grain. That would
require
more carts, because the turn-around time is
longer, and we figured there would be enough
bicycles in the area to do the more-efficient
bicycle cart, especially the rail-bike version
which, lacking fuel for trains, would be the
most
efficient.

Being close to the ocean will be helpful for
Melbourne, although that depends on what has
happened with the fishing close to shore.
Also,
IIRC, quite a bit of wheat is grown in
Victoria,
although I don't know how the drought is
impacting
that. I don't know what we would do in
Oklahoma
without those large silos of grain and
soybeans
that ring the city and which even just before
harvest will typically have enough product in
them
to feed the state the basic ration we devised.

Bob Waldrop
www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rafael Schouten"
<talktoraf@hotmail.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pre-design for
collapse


Hi Robert,

the collapse workshop is a great idea,
inspired
me to organise one in
melbourne in the next few weeks. Any ideas
for
form, content etc? what worked?
cheers

Rafael Schouten



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