permaculture

[Nancy Frank <oppty@mac.com>]

I would certainly agree with you.  I just wanted to put information  
out there for others to consider who may be in a different setting.

You may be surprised at the number of llamas in Oklahoma.  Some of  
the biggest national events in the llama world take place at the  
Heritage Center!

Nancy

On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Robert Waldrop wrote:

> Llamas are a great resource, and we did discuss
> horses some and animal traction in general.
> However, our focus was on what could happen here
> on an emergency basis if we were in a collapse
> situation.  Oklahoma has a lot of horses, but not
> many of them are trained to pull wagons, and they
> aren't in Oklahoma City, and there aren't many
> wagons.  It seemed easier to us to use the
> available urban resource -- bicycles -- and to
> build bicycle carts.  If this were to go on
> indefinitely, we would probably end up reinventing
> the Conestoga wagon and training cattle as oxen.
> We don't have many llamas in the state, and it
> would take a long while to raise enough to do all
> the requisite hauling.
>
> Bob Waldrop, OKC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nancy Frank" <oppty@mac.com>
> To: "permaculture"
> <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pre-design for
> collapse
>
>
> > Just one more thing, and then I will go on with
> > my day.  The manure
> > produced from llamas is high in nitrogen, and
> > does not have to be
> > composted before it is applied to a garden.  It
> > doesn't burn the plants.
> >
> > Nancy
> >
> > On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Nancy Frank wrote:
> >
> > > In response to your push carts and bicycle
> > > carts, I thought about
> > > other animals, like horses.  I know that horses
> > > eat far too much to
> > > make them realistic for most, and are not
> > > sustainable in the long
> > > run.  But llamas are MUCH more efficient with
> > > what they eat, can
> > > carry more per pound of body weight than a
> > > horse (a horse weighing
> > > 1,000 pounds will carry about 210 pounds,
> > > llamas weighing 300 pounds
> > > will carry about 50-75 pounds).  They also keep
> > > brush down, as
> > > browsers rather than only grass grazers,
> > > provide delightful wool for
> > > spinning, knitting and weaving warm winter
> > > outerwear and sweaters,
> > > and are friendly as companions.  Just a
> > > thought.
> > >
> > > I am learning a great deal from this list, and
> > > appreciate the
> > > information.
> > >
> > > Nancy in Wisconsin
> > >
> > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:02 PM, Robert Waldrop
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > One final note. . . we had a potluck meal at
> > > > lunch, and I always think that potlucks are
> > > > great
> > > > ideas for one day events.  That way one person
> > > > isn't consumed with cooking/preparing for the
> > > > group, all can participate, and all take
> > > > responsibility for the food.  Table fellowship
> > > > is
> > > > important.
> > > >
> > > > Melbourne is a great city, I was there a while
> > > > in
> > > > 1972, staying with a Greek family in Clifton
> > > > Hill.
> > > > We heated our room with charcoal briquets that
> > > > we
> > > > bought from a guy who came by once a week with
> > > > a
> > > > push cart loaded with big sacks of briquets.
> > > > I'm
> > > > sure things have changed a lot since then.
> > > > Pushcarts will be useful though.  we didn't
> > > > spend
> > > > a lot of time on it, but we did talk briefly
> > > > about
> > > > using handcarts to move grain.  That would
> > > > require
> > > > more carts, because the turn-around time is
> > > > longer, and we figured there would be enough
> > > > bicycles in the area to do the more-efficient
> > > > bicycle cart, especially the rail-bike version
> > > > which, lacking fuel for trains, would be the
> > > > most
> > > > efficient.
> > > >
> > > > Being close to the ocean will be helpful for
> > > > Melbourne, although that depends on what has
> > > > happened with the fishing close to shore.
> > > > Also,
> > > > IIRC, quite a bit of wheat is grown in
> > > > Victoria,
> > > > although I don't know how the drought is
> > > > impacting
> > > > that.  I don't know what we would do in
> > > > Oklahoma
> > > > without those large silos of grain and
> > > > soybeans
> > > > that ring the city and which even just before
> > > > harvest will typically have enough product in
> > > > them
> > > > to feed the state the basic ration we devised.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Waldrop
> > > > www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Rafael Schouten"
> > > > <talktoraf@hotmail.com>
> > > > To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:50 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pre-design for
> > > > collapse
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Robert,
> > > > >
> > > > > the collapse workshop is a great idea,
> > > > > inspired
> > > > > me to organise one in
> > > > > melbourne in the next few weeks. Any ideas
> > > > > for
> > > > > form, content etc? what worked?
> > > > > cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Rafael Schouten
> > > >
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