permaculture

[Keith Morris <earthsurfing@yahoo.com>]

Hello Friends and Colleagues, 

I am so glad to see the topic finally on this list-serve, thanks to those who 
brought it up!  And thanks to everyone who's chimed in.  (I only wish it 
weren't happening during a time of year when I try to (need to) have as 
little to do with the computer as possible!)

When a Texan began advertising 9 day certification courses in New Hampshire 
and Massachusetts on the Northeastern Permaculture webpage- I drafted a 
letter wondering how he could be doing full certification in only 9 days.  
After doing the math, I realized that, technically, 9 eight-hour days is "72 
hours", so I didn't send the letter...  but still I wonder about the 
integrity of this course.  My understanding was a 12 day minimum, and even 
really isn't enough time...

If the organizers of this course are on this list- please share your 
perspective!  I certainly don't intend to make assumptions- but am now 
wondering aloud what I had been wondering privately- the topic is certainly 
worthy of discussion...

But at the heart of this, as Tom pointed out, is a great deal of confusion 
about what "Certification" really means.  I think we need to reach some 
consensus, but don't think that this can (or necessarily should) be codified 
or enforced.  Allow me to explain...

When I graduate students, its explained that the "Certificate" means they've 
completed the 'Internationally Recognized Course', not that they are 
"Certified Permaculture Designers".  (Dave Jacke's certificates actually 
state 'Design Trainee'.)  Its asked that any student document at least 2 
years of work designing, implementing, studying with a mentor, etc. before 
they use the word Permaculture in a business (farm, designer, whatever).  Its 
further specified that after the two years, a Teacher Training and/ or 
Teaching Apprenticeship is needed before one can offer the course, and even 
then ideally as part of a more experienced team.

The required building of a portfolio for two years is one of the greatest 
assets of this system.  In my experience, this is how people's own homes, 
youth groups, churches, boy and girls clubs, homeless shelters, and other 
organizations that could use permaculture but aren't looking to hire someone, 
get designs done and planted for their sites.  Its also how designers can 
work in their home communities and helps breaks the cycle of permaculture as 
strictly 'landscaping for the rich'.  It also how a number of good designers 
have built their reputations.

That being said, it all needs to be balanced by two facts: 

1.  Permaculture solutions need to begin to be implemented wherever, 
whenever, and as soon as possible.  

2.  Every person is different!

These both may be obvious, but they are specifically why 'codifying' or 
'enforcing' may be antithetical to permaculture.  I teach at colleges, where 
the classes are filled mostly with young people trying to figure out what 
they will do with their lives.  In this context, the extended study/ design 
course as spring-board to lifetime of learning and doing is particularly 
important to stress (as well as how to live permaculture even if you don't 
'own' land). 

But, I also teach at a Design Build School where most participants are 
already professionals established in their fields: architects, farmers, 
educators, whatever.  Here, the same 'expectations' are stated, but I 
certainly hope that an architect with her own firm begins to integrate 
permaculture solutions into her work the very day she leaves the course!  I 
also hope the same would be true of the grade school teacher, and don't 
really care whether he calls the educational forest garden he has students 
designing and planting 'permaculture' or not.

I think there are two quotes from the founders of permaculture particularly 
relevant here:

When we had David Holmgren here for a NEPC networking event, he stressed: 
"Permaculture is not a profession."  I'll paraphrase the rest... we need 
permaculture to inform all professions: attorneys, accountants, school 
teachers, etc.  

I think we need to escape the mindset of permaculture only espousing 
'designers' and 'teachers' and let people live it in the millions of ways 
we've yet to see it expressed.  There may not be 'demand' for legions of more 
designers and teachers, but there certainly is demand for everyone to start 
living this!
Permaculture design and teaching aren't specialized fields, this is a 
CULTURE.  These ideas should be in every grade school: growing plants, 
supplementing classrooms and cafeterias; in the design of every home, town, 
farm, business, city, whatever...

In 1996, Bill Mollison wrote: "...Today, with hundreds of itinerant teachers 
turning up anywhere, the system is beyond restraint.  Safe at last, and in a 
geometric growth stage.  We won.  Permaculture is permanently ungovernable."

This is not to say that it isn't our role to have conversations just like 
these to maintain integrity, and continue to build consensus.  I am glad to 
know there are more than one 'Permaculture Institute', shouldn't there be?  
Why would we want to recognize political boundaries that are held contrary to 
ecological communities and culture groups?

Adam, thank you for your offer of a wiki- there has been a loosely organized 
discussion focused on these issues on the Northeastern Permaculture Network 
Wiki since 2005.  I'd invite anyone to contribute, and there are a number of 
resources valuable to folks from any region.

I also like Steve's idea of publishing people's designs on the web, something 
else we have been playing with the northeastern wiki.  Wiki's are one 
potential model for this collaboration in providing feedback.

Thanks everyone for your ideas, and thanks for letting me babble on the 
topic!  

In Solidarity,
Keith



Keith Morris
  Prospect Rock Permaculture
  earthsurfing@yahoo.com
  (802) 734.1129
  PO Box 426 
  Jeffersonville, VT 05464
   
  "If we do not do the impossible, we shall be faced with the unthinkable."
  -Murray Bookchin (1921-2006)

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it 
now.
>From lgaffney@bigpond.com  Tue May  6 19:29:01 2008
Return-Path: <lgaffney@bigpond.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id D91F04C011; Tue,  6 May 2008 19:29:01 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: **
X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=FAKE_REPLY_C,HTML_MESSAGE
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com (nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com
        [61.9.189.146])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A564C010
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
        Tue,  6 May 2008 19:29:00 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com ([121.219.231.175])
        by nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id
        
<20080506232859.ZCFL21542.nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com@nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com>
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 6 May 2008 23:28:59 +0000
Received: from default1zw8fr1 ([121.219.231.175])
        by nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com with SMTP
        id 
<20080506232858.XADS1860.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@default1zw8fr1>
        for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 6 May 2008 23:28:58 +0000
Message-ID: <001f01c8afd0$ec97f860$0200000a@default1zw8fr1>
From: "Laurence Gaffney" <lgaffney@bigpond.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:28:43 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198
X-RPD-ScanID: Class unknown; VirusThreatLevel unknown, RefID
        str=0001.0A150201.4820E9BB.0010,ss=1,fgs=0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: Re: [permaculture] 9-day PDC??
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
        <mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 23:29:02 -0000

1.    Toby Hemenway (Digest, Vol 64, Issue 7) wrote:-
>  "I've never seen a certificate that declares that the holder is a =
certified designer. Does anyone out there have a  certificate that says =
that"?
My Certificate endorsed by Larry Santoyo certifies that I have =
"successfully completed a Permaculture Consultant's Design Course". =
(same as Toms)
I found that a tad embarrassing at the time.

2.    Tom (Digest, Vol 64, Issue 6) suggests considering renaming the =
course "an intensive foundational introduction to permaculture concepts, =
 and in (Digest, Vol 64, Issue 7), "an intensive introduction for the =
individual"
My experience of the course found it to be certainly those.

3.    Keith Morris (Digest, Vol 64, Issue 7) quoted David Holmgren as =
saying "Permaculture is not a profession."

I think the emphasis should be on education that leads to work on the =
ground and more education that leads to more work on the ground. I do =
not think the emphasis should be on education that leads to Permaculture =
as a Profession.
On page one of Mollison's "Introduction to Permaculture" the basic =
philosophy of permaculture is described as being "of protracted and =
thoughtful observation. For me this has always seemed at odds with the =
reality and philosophy of Professional Consulting.
=20

Laurence Gaffney =20