permaculture

["Vital Scherrer" <vital233@hotmail.com>]

Thanks Carol and Stella!
I'm afraid my subsoil doesn't have enough percentage of clay - according to 
the source mentioned below: "...the soil must have a 15% or higher clay 
content and 20-100% passing the #200 sieve." - nor is there any available as 
a liner.
It sounds like Sepp's method is at least as labour-intensive as to use a 
plastic liner.
I found quiet good information at 
"www.oneplan.org/Stock/wasteFac/manual4.shtml", where besides the soil and 
its moisture requirements, the best equipment for compaction is mentioned. 
The only one that I have seen around here is a smooth-drum-vibratory-roller.
Though, as I am in doubt about the suitability of the soil, I probably 
better get some pigs and let them have a go at it. I guess if they can't do 
it, then I will have to forget about it or consider an artificial 
waterproofing.
The method with the liner of soft organic material, which is covered with 
soil to turn into a water proofing slimy layer is not applicable either, as 
there is not enough such suitable material around here.
About 15 years ago I helped Bill Mollison as a wwoofer at his place in 
Tyalgum. As far as I remember, the soil there was similar to the one I have, 
reddish of volcanic origin. Does anybody know how he built his ponds? (I'm 
sorry that I didn't ask him, but he spoke such a pronounced dialect, that I 
had too often difficulties to understand him.)
Regards
Vital

----Original Message Follows----
From: Stella <stella@finca-luna.com>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pond construction
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:48:58 +0100

I´ve recently had the pleasure of meeting Sepp as he visited our
Island, and he gave me his DVD and CD (which I had had difficulties
getting hold of: they're very good, if you can, get them).

I didn´t ask him about ponds specifically but he mentioned he's thought
of a water-retention system could would work for us here, using
pulverized vulcanic rock we have in abundance ... so am looking forward
to finding out more about that, but it has to be experimented with
still.

The message being, as in anything with permaculture, that what works
best is some locally adapted solution, after doing lots of observation
of nature and experimenting on a small scale first.
Obvioustly what soil you have is totally critical.  But if you want to
know what worked in his alpine region, see below...

Personally, I have seen many a pond fail with the compacting clay
method, and give 'natural pond design' a bad name... after which people
rip the thing up and put down cement or plastic (& sometimes both, if
they´ve gotten really upset with the experience!)   It can be very
traumatic.

What Sepp says he observed on his farm was how pigs agitated the
water-earth mix and how they found the damp hollows to start doing this
.. so they don´t just compact, but probably cause the watery mud mix to
separate then layer perfectly (big particles at the bottom, purest fine
clay particles at the top) by sedimentation, once they go off somewhere
else.
This is not exactly what he says happens, it´s just what I know happens
from being a potter.   What he does say on his video (highly
reccomended) is that all he does is imitate this agitating action with
an excavator, on a larger scale.
I imagine the pig's shit, hair, etc. may have something to do with glay
formation also however... but this may only be a significant detail in
more porous soils than he has.

On his site you can see how to buy the various DVDs, CDs, books etc,
where they've accumulated a lot of info.  This is an extract from the
interactive CD:

"The structure of a man-made pond should be as close to a natural pond
as possible.  It is very important for the pond to have areas of both
deep and shallow water. Only  such a structure allows the creation of a
self-sustaining ecosystem, because it  provides the different habitats
that each of the plants and animals need. Deep water  can be used by
the fish as a retreat to survive cold winters, and it also prevents the
  pond from being overgrown with water plants. Shallow zones encourage
many  varieties of fish to reproduce. The structure of the pond needs
to be adjusted to fit the  geological conditions of the site as well.

3.5.1  Creating a pond  First the planned shape of the pond is digged
out; the size and kind of the utilised  equipment depends on the
terrain, and on the size of the pond. Small moist biotopes  can be
created by hand, but for larger structures we recommend the use of
excavators. To construct banks, it is necessary to divide coarse soil
from the fine.  This is done by piling the excavated soil into a tall
heap. The coarse parts will roll  down the sides, the fine soil remains
on the heap. The structure of the bank consists  of various layers of
fine soil, each about 30 to 50 cm high, which are packed to  densen
them. When larger ponds are created, the different layers can be
compacted  by driving over them with an excavator. The coarse material
will be used later to  stabilise and secure the banks. It can also be
incorporated into the pond to create  different micro-biotopes.
After the pond has been shaped, the bottom has to be compacted. Water
is poured  into the basin, enough that the excavator will be in water
of 30 – 40 cm depth. Then  the bottom of the pond is agitated with a
narrow excavator shovel. The shovel is  inserted approx. one half to
one meter deep into the ground and is agitated. The  depth depends on
the geological conditions. This action makes the fine soil particles
sink to the ground and compact the bottom of the pond. The method is
similar to the  vibroflotation of concrete.    After the pond bottom
has been compacted, the banks have to be finished. Rocks  and root
stocks can be used for this. Rocks that project from the water surface
quickly accumulate heat from the sun, thus raising the waters
temperature. In winter  the pond will not be covered entirely with ice,
or only for a much shorter time,  decreasing the potential risk for the
fish population due to oxygen deficiency. This  effect is especially
valuable in water gardens, where thermophilic species of fish and
water plants are reared. It is even possible to breed Japanese Koi
karps in a region,  which is known as the “Austrian Siberia”.    Our
method of creating ponds is very different to conventional techniques.
Conventional methods use lining to make the pond bottom impermeable.
However,  the lining can be easily damaged. Moreover inserting a
pond-lining is costly and  labour-intensive. We are convinced that a
natural pond should not have any lining as  it impedes the formation of
a natural pond bottom.



El 24/11/2007, a las 15:07, Vital Scherrer escribió:

> Hello,
> Is anybody familiar with the pond construction technique of Sepp
> Holzer?
> Reportedly he built ponds by copying the way the pigs create their mud
> pools
> - by compacting the soil. I asked him for detailed information about
> this.
> He told me to contact the people which are involved in his project in
> Portugal. They don't seem to be able to help me with this either.
> Therefore
> I would appreciate any practical information about this or another
> relatively easy, natural and durable pond building method - for a pond
> of
> around 30m x 10m.
> Regards
> Vital
>
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