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  • From: lbsaltzman@aol.com
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Where the political discussion goes
  • Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:01:14 -0400

I have run into something interesting on politics and the anti-war movement
that might be relevent. I have a friend who is a Vietnam Veteran and anti-war
activist. He was one of the driving forces behind what is called Arlington
West in Santa Barbara, Calif., the community where I live. Arlington West is
where the crosses were set up to comemorate the dead soldiers from Iraq, and
it has been an effective anti-war tool which has spread to other cities. 
Anyway, my friend is also a sustainability kind of person and has sold
Cheramoyas and other fruit to the local community. It is all produce that is 
grown in his backyard orchard.  He has been pushing the anti-war progressives
to connect oil, and sustainability as a way to stop the war. He is advocating
that reducing demand for oil by encouraging people to adopt a more
sustainable lifestyle will do a lot to end the war in Iraq. Interesting
enough he is running into huge resistance amongst other Vietnam vets, and
amongst anti-war folks in general when he raises the connection between oil
and the war. His notions on promoting sustainable living as a tool to reduce
oil usage and thereby reduce the need to conquer countries like Iraq that are
rich in oil resources. 

So here we sit on a forum on Permaculture arguing about, and discussing
politics and its relevence to Permaculture. I am wondering what we can do to
connect with, and spread the message of sustainability, to the many anti-war
progessives and the social justice activists who don't connect the dots. 
Some do get sustainability, but many others do not and are narrowly focused
on ending the war or other worthy progessive goals.  I even know a social
justice progessive who is fighting hard to pave over the last local farmland
in my community with low cost housing for the poor, not thinking about what
the poor will eat when the oil gets to expensive to ship food from afar.  I
would suggest that in discussing politics there is more to be thought about
than just national politics.   The lack of awareness of sustainable living
seems to cut across the political divides at least in the U.S.  There are
liberal and progessives who are clueless about sustainability. I remember
convincing a member of Earth First to plant a tomoato plant. he had never
planted anything in his entire life or grown anything he ate, instead he
bought packaged food while fighting the bad guys who hurt the environment.  
Conversely, while there are conservatives who don't get sustainability, there
are members of the Christian right who have developed the concept of creation
care and who are strongly beginning to get sustainability.

So if Permaculture is to integrate politics, I think we need to think through
the issues in dealing with all parts of the political spectrum and I don't
think it will be an easy chore.

Larry Saltzman
-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Tolson <healinghawk@earthlink.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:16 pm
Subject: [permaculture] Where the political discussion goes



I think I understand the international intricacies of political
iscussion on a global listserv, which we started into with the economic
olonialism idea of golf resorts and sugar plantations, which, in
olitical economics, are the same thing: harvesters of gold, as Kathyann
rilliantly called it.
The primary reason international politics is volatile is the ubiquitous
conomic oppression of the G8 countries. Read the history of the
retton Woods Agreements spawning the World Bank, the IMF, and GATT,
hich became the WTO under Brother Bill Clinton. The fact that the WTO
as almost failed is strong testament to the consequences of giving the
ictims of US ( and G8) economic oppression a voice in the global
olitical economics policy process. There's a long way to go to attain
nearly fair global political economics and it will be a bumpy ride
ecause the rich apparently think their money buys them dominion over
veryone else.
t seems odd to see a US black man use his money to oppress others into
eaving their land.
ermaculture sees money differently than real estate developers and
ultinational food corporations, since Permaculturalists share the
rofits of our bountiful harvests. Money does not become a control
ssue, in Permaculture, because we take only what we need and we share
he rest. This is what makes Permaculture sustainable, in political
conomics terms. We've seen the grinches of dominion economics crash
ny number of ecosystems in the interests of hoarding more gold. As I
ecall, although I'll need to re-read to be certain, William R. Catton,
n his wonderful, if scholarly, /Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of
evolutionary Change/, (a scholarly book that has not once gone out of
rint since 1980), makes the case that the Great Depression resulted
rom overshooting the US ecosystem. Since then, we've way overshot it
ith the ghost acreage from cheap oil.
conomic oppression is about purchasing ghost acreage to support
vershot ecosystems and to maintain the elites in power positions, not
ecessarily in that order.
ow can political discussion not be volatile, considering what's at stake?
ermaculture calls this volatility an edge.
voiding edges is not Permaculture.
n fact, edges are the most fecund places, to Permaculture.
ermaculture teaches us to pay close attention to edges.
he political discussion has led us to the nub of The Problem: the
lobal North's need for ghost acreage in order to continue a failed
conomic agenda. Read the history of the Bretton Woods agreements.
ead the neo-con agenda at
ttp://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf.
hen, if you live in the US, consider if you're willing to live with
fforts carried out in your name that perpetuate US economic hegemony
ver the rest of the planet.
S foreign policy is run by the plantation mentality of the rich. In
ur name.
etting that information from "our" victims is tough to face without
esorting to denial or the "isms." Racism. Classism, Etc.
ut Permaculture teaches us to observe, and to act in harmony with our
bservations.
he baseline question from my observations, though, is this: shall we
ct symbiotically or parasitically?
ermaculture says symbiotically.
arasitic isn't Permaculture.
et we in the US live in an economically and ecologically parasitic
ystem dependent on global military dominance and stripping Earth of her
ounty.
e've mortgaged our grand-children's future to China in order to
ontinue purchasing this military dominance and its attendant economic
xpansion.
ow do we in the US live with this?
arth is one ecosystem and we have to find niches in it that do not
ppress others.
his is Permaculture.
Tommy Tolson
ustin, TX
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