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  • From: Rich Blaha <rich@mossbackfarm.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] spindle cut orchards
  • Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:17:32 -0700

Hi Paul

I guess I don't share your outrage at the practice....Fukuoka aside, most fruit trees do well with heavy pruning. If you've ever seen an old neglected apple tree, breaking branches from the weight of fruit on spindly limbs, you'll see that neglect, however benign, doesn't always do them good. Espalier techniques are the spindle technique taken to the extreme...they are a great way to pack lots of fruit production, often of a variety that doesn't do well in your climate, into a little area. Could be permaculture.

To add to my previous post, Cloud Mtn is a 20 acre family farm, which started out in the '70s growing organic garlic and tomatoes, then moved into 'spindled' apple orchards, then a retail nursery, all to keep profitable, or at least, to keep the farm in the family. No longer organic, not permaculture, but diversified, with a good heart and mind running the show.

I wouldn't worry about big ag getting too into this game...there's so much competition from Chinese apple farmers that family farms in WA and OR are ripping out trees right and left, often putting in wine grapes if the location is suitable. That, or subdivisions. Not permaculture, in a far, far worse way.

You want to see outrage, come to the Willamette Valley and check out our grass seed fields...monoculture is mandated by the seed buyers, so even the roadside ditches are nuked to keep the seed from being 'contaminated'

Rich
www.mossbackfarm.com/journal




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3. Re: spindle cut orchards (paul wheaton)


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 12:17:33 -0700
From: "paul wheaton" <paul@richsoil.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] spindle cut orchards
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<22d4eb790706021217k7a17e6tcaa1ce50ddeb60aa@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I had some friends over for breakfast this morning and I mentioned
this. After that I want to talk about it here more.

I guess what I'm fishing for here is not just more info. I want to
either get comfortable with the idea, or I want to get support for why
it ain't permaculture.

At the moment, I feel pretty outraged at this practice. I'm open to
the idea that I am simply ignorant - with a little more understanding
a path will be illuminated to show that this practice can be
incorporated into permaculture. But my gut says that ain't the case.

Lack of diversity bugs me.

Lack of canopy layers bugs me.

But I think the thing that bugs me the most is that the trees are
treated so disrepectfully. It reminds me of debeaking chickens or
confining pigs into something where they cannot turn around. I've
never been one to do physically hug a tree - I keep the chain on my
saw pretty sharp and I'm not bashful about taking out trees to help
the farm - or me. But it is done with the idea that I am working with
nature. This seems .... twisted. Is this not one of God's
creatures that is being shackled and squeezed to produce more money?

It seems icky. It seems far from permaculture. It smells like a new
direction from big ag.

Or maybe I just don't fully understand it yet and I'm just reactionary.








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