permaculture

[lbsaltzman@aol.com]

I would argue that the culture of Chaco Canyon is not what is meant by the 
term horticulture, they practiced fairly intensive agriculture.  As Toby said 
it is a very marginal area to do it.  I still recommend Tending the Wild by 
M. Kat Anderson to understand what large scale horticulture encompasses and 
how well a decent size population can live with proper land management. The 
horticultural practices of various California Indians was vastly different 
from the agricultural practices in other parts of this continent.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: raincascadia@yahoo.com
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 7:14 PM
Subject: [permaculture] horticulture isn't the answer either


While I agree with Toby's promotion of horticulture, and appreciate his 
sociological distinction between it and agriculture, most horticulural 
socities 
are (mostly were) not inherently sustainable, either.  A classic and extreme 
example is in the US Southwest, where most of the areas inhabited by 
pre-Columbian Native Americans were deforested and turned to bare desert 
after a 
few generations of farming (the Anasazi and the people that built at Chaco 
Canyon are the most famous).  It appears that the only people that survived 
as 
horticulturists are those that were lucky enough to occupy ideal sites, with 
dependable water sources and a forgiving ecology.
   
  Small-scale integrated farming dependent mostly on humun labor and no major 
inputs (off-site energy, biomass, nutrients, poisons, or water) is definitely 
part of the solution, I believe, but only along with ecologically informed 
decisions based on long-term monitoring and self-restraint, especially with 
regard to population reduction and control.  The scientific method, and the 
technology we now have to implement it, is relatively new and is crucial if 
we 
are to properly understand and manage the ecosystems of which we are a part.  
Past societies generally couldn't perceive the creeping changes that took 
place 
over generations, though warnings from prophets such as Plato and Mencius 
(who 
saw massive deforestation turning the hills into eroded rocks in Greece and 
China, respectively) didn't seem to have any more effect than modern 
scientists 
warning about global warming, today.  Without self-restraint, there is no 
hope.  
I guess we need a new religion (which will probably
 create more problems).
   
  Rain
   
  

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: VABF Conference (Keith Johnson)
2. Re: "How to Save the World" - Biodynamics in India (Steve Diver)
3. Keeping up with the Colemans (Toby Hemenway)
4. Re: "green" affiliates (Martin Naylor)
5. Ode to Indian Farmers Whose Land Was Confiscated For
Industrialization (sustain_ability@123mail.org)
6. Re: Ode to Indian Farmers Whose Land Was Confiscated For
Industrialization (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:57:09 -0500
From: Keith Johnson 
Subject: Re: [permaculture] VABF Conference
To: permaculture 

Message-ID: <45AE6375.9010805@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Peter Bane attended this event last year and said it was very good. This 
year he will be a keynote speaker (and book / mag seller).
Keith

Steve Diver wrote:
> The VABF conference is excellent, so if you're within
> 3-5 hours it can be worth the trip.
>
> Often the biggest thing you get from these bio-regional,
> sustainable ag, and organic ag conferences is the opportunity
> to meet kindred spirits and fellow land managers, as well as
> to share stories that range from living on the land to raising
> little kids and nanny goats, onwards to organic farming methods
> including tools and equipment and composting and keeping
> chickens on pasture.
> VABF
> http://www.vabf.org
> 
-- 
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
also Association for Regenerative Culture
also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a 
small world after oil.
http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
also Bloomington Permaculture Guild



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:20:19 -0600
From: Steve Diver 
Subject: Re: [permaculture] "How to Save the World" - Biodynamics in
India
Cc: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
, permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <45AE68E3.7040008@ncat.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Friends -

Word comes from New Zealand that this DVD about
biodynamic farming in India has been released.

"How to Save the World"
- One Man, One Cow, One Planet -
http://www.howtosavetheworld.co.nz

YouTube has a brief review from the director,
Barbara Burstyn, who explains that it is more than
a film about a brilliant farming method, but a political
film about globalization, the deteriation of land due
to chemical farming, and food sovereignty; it alludes to
a blue-print for a post-industrial future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l84laB4JPdw

Best wishes,
Steve Diver


> "How to Save the World"
> - One Man, One Cow, One Planet -
> http://www.howtosavetheworld.co.nz
>
> Press Release
> http://www.howtosavetheworld.co.nz/HTSW%20Press%20Kit-WEB.pdf
>
>
> A film about biodynamics in India featuring the work of Peter Proctor,
> a 78-year old farmer from New Zealand who has helped shepherd
> the rapid growth of biodynamics in India over the last ten years.
> Narrated by Peter Coyote.
>
> By Thomas and Barbara Burstyn with Cloud South Films in New Zealand
>
> Due for release December 1st, 2006.
>
> "The film explains biodynamics and how to grow biodynamically.
> It explores the political implications of the present world food system.
> We make the point that biodynamic farming may be the best hope this
> world has," said Barbara Burstyn.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:03:41 -0800
From: Toby Hemenway 
Subject: [permaculture] Keeping up with the Colemans
To: permaculture list 

Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

On 1/16/07 6:20 PM, "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote:


> When is your next book coming out? You've got to keep up with Jeavons,
> Mollison and Eliot Coleman.


I've got about 4 projects cooking. Chelsea Green wants a revised, expanded
version of Gaia's Garden (more photos, more examples, more detail). I'm also
putting together a book on how we evolved from hunter-gatherers to farmers
to industrialists, and how what we need to do is become horticulturalists if
we want to survive on the this planet. In other words, how permaculture, a
horticultural rather than agricultural system, will save the planet and
humanity. It fits right in there with Derrick Jensen, Ishmael, and Joseph
Tainter, but I'm trying to actually provide some solutions rather than just
explain how bad this mess is and how we got here. Then there are two or
three other books I've got notes for, on the myth of competition, and
another on the exotics/natives debate, though it looks like Holmgren might
have that one covered. And one these days I will finish a magnum opus on
patterns in design. But for now I'm working on the GG revision and the
horticulture book. When I'm not eating up time with email!

Toby
__________________
Learn permaculture in at a tropical food forest in Belize this February.
Details at http://patternliteracy.com
__________________ 




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:52:05 +1100 (EST)
From: Martin Naylor 
Subject: Re: [permaculture] "green" affiliates
To: permaculture 

Message-ID: <247583.27764.qm@web37312.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have'nt checked this out, but it might be okay,Notes:
Dr James Rouse from Vegetarian Times Magazine and Whole Foods Market have 
launched a new company that allows you to be in business with them 

This is the company 
http://www.TheBalan ceCompany. com/chris

Please call and hear all about it

641-297-5900 pass code 2252623#
6 Pm pacific / 9 eastern


Keith Johnson wrote: Speaking of activism and passivism, I'm looking at 
adding 
passive income 
to my active income and was wondering who out there has searched out the 
most ethical, conscious, and 'green' affiliate marketing programs and 
what did you find?

Thanks all for your comments about evolving the magazine. They give us 
something to ponder as we make our plans for expansion.

Keep your suggestions and feedback coming.

-- 
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
also Association for Regenerative Culture
also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a 
small world after oil.
http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
also Bloomington Permaculture Guild

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture



Desiderata
You are a child of the universe,no less than the trees and the stars,
you have a right to be here.

Magna Carta 1215
40. To no one will we sell, to no one will we refuse or delay, right or 
justice










Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:13:20 -0500
From: sustain_ability@123mail.org
Subject: [permaculture] Ode to Indian Farmers Whose Land Was
Confiscated For Industrialization
To: "permaculture" 

Message-ID: <1169100800.842.1169858953@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"


Ode to Indian Farmers Whose Land Was Confiscated For Industrialization

Some of them will not despair and retreat to less "productive" lands.
They will re-learn their craft of tending the soil, thus imparting a
wealth of knowledge that will outlast any material culture. The short
term gains of the industrial world are even now deteriorating into yet
another periodic decline.

>From the website - 
http://www.carbon.org/AboutOurOrganization.htm 

"..Our mission is to provide support for those people who are most in
need. We estimate that there are 200 million families that could benefit
from home gardens based on simplified hydroponics.."

The Chinese are hedging their bets, wishing upon "sustainable" cities - 
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/05/on_designing_su.php .

Some of the discoveries of the era of cheap (a.k.a. Big) oil can be
useful in making the transition to the often touted "post industrial"
era. Lion Kuntz shows us a key alternative to the fuel component of oil
- http://h2-pv.us/wiki .

"..Carbohydrates are man's largest organic source of renewal energy both
on land and in the sea. Whether consumed by man or animal, evolution has
ensured that the enzymes in living cells use carbohydrates with
conservation of that energy. Industries that make monomer carbohydrates
dissipate the energy stored in its polymers. Prospects for future
chemical and biochemical utilisation depend on remedying this tragedy
and learning the lesson taught by nature."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=DisplayFiltered&DB=pubmed

George
http://transitions.stumbleupon.com


-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an
unladen european swallow



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:26:27 -0500
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." 
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ode to Indian Farmers Whose Land Was
Confiscated For Industrialization
To: permaculture 

Message-ID: <45AF2123.9050703@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

sustain_ability@123mail.org wrote:

> Ode to Indian Farmers Whose Land Was Confiscated For Industrialization

<....>

Magnificent, George. Thanks for posting this.

I can predict a massive migration of people from their present circumstances,
without leaving home, to a sustainable future, a wealth of ideas exchanged 
across the continent
aand around the world.

I tip my hat (an Akubra, a wide brim black one) to Keith and Peter in their 
effort to transform the Permaculture 
Activist into a mighty periodical and equally mighty website.

I have suggested that a large scale services and production marketing and 
exchange network be incorporated
into their new web presence.

I if may ask, who in this list earns part or all his or her livelihood from 
services or products they offer to the 
public? I would invite any and all of you who fall into this category to let 
us 
know who you are and what you sell.

My own business is sustainably-grown vegetables and handmade innovative 
lifetime 
high performance hand garden tools,
eventually human powered garden equipment with wheels. The hand tools are 
made 
with recycled steel, usually tool steel.

LL
-- 
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Venaura Farm
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://market-farming.com/venaurafarm
http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech



------------------------------

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 48, Issue 31
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