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  • From: mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] dealing with hard ground
  • Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:16:27 -0500

I was looking at a property (for a possible juice vineyard) that had a 12 acre ridgetop field that had been in corn for generations. It was now in sort of a feeble pasture and the soil was a clay-gravel hardpan, I couldn't even scuff it after kicking it with my feet. I was trying to think if there was anything I could do to reclaim something like this. The amount of compost it would take to make a dent here would be astronomical. The only other things I could think of were ripping it with a yeoman's plow & maybe berm & swale on contour. Seems much more practical with something like this to put it in forest garden & let the trees do the work.

~mIEKAL

On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Shane Perry wrote:

Amanda,
I would think that if you could get your hands on a truck, with a
little bit of calling around, perhaps to the county extensions office,
you could locate plenty of good compostable materials for sheet mulching
inexpensively, if not free. I like in C'ville VA and I think that if
you called the extensions office closer to Culpeper you would be able to
get your hands on some cheap straw bales and manure from the local
farms. It won't be completely free (i.e. gas to get there, etc.) but
it's as close as it gets! Hope this helps.

Shane

neshura wrote:

Yes, building up was already in the plan, I've done a raised bed herb
garden (costly due to the compost), but the rate at which our
household generates compostables is not very high, and low-cost
resources for mulch are now closed for the year. That is why I was
asking if there was any way to keep from writing off direct
improvement of the existing soil re possible techniques for planting
and protecting cover crops.

I will see what the leaf fall is like this autumn -- I'm not certain
of the type of maple but despite being huge trees, the canopy is tiny
-- they don't grow any side branches (perhaps not maples, they may
have been misidentified to me). Covering 8,000 square feet to any
significant depth would take many many cubic feet of material, and the
wallet shrieks in terror at the prospect of trying to do that without
waiting for several years of leaf fall. I will resign myself to
gardening in the 6 sq ft raised bed herb garden for the next few
years.

Thanks.


On 9/14/05, margi <oaksong@peak.org> wrote:


All those maple leaves can be added to the soil used to "uppen" it!



William Genest wrote:



"Uppen" it !

Don't dig down, build up - Raised beds - lots and lots of mulch and
organic matter...

On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:08 PM, neshura wrote:





Hello all!

I rent a suburban property in hot-and-humid Alexandria, VA. There are
four beautiful maples in the back yard and a cypress in the front, and
the property is largely covered in lovely dappled shade for most of
the summer. It is ideal for gardening except for one factor -- the
tilth, or rather lack thereof. The soil is completely impenetrable by
normal human effort.

I have tried denting the soil with:

* a shovel
* a spade with a sharpened edge
* hand tools
* a garden "claw"

and finally, an earth auger hooked up to a power drill.

The net effect of all of these methods, across several test spots in
the yard, was merely the generation of a few small puffs of
light-colored dust with absolutely no penetration into the soil. The
established grass grows fine, the established daylilies struggle
along, and the virginia creeper and morning glory do just fine around
the edges of the property. There's plenty of water; the house has an
active sump pump and we have to carefully redirect gutter water away



from the foundation because the water table is so close to the surface



here.

I don't want to rototill, not least because it would risk damaging the
tree roots. I had some thought of using cover crops or daikon to try
to break up the soil, but the thriving urban wildlife (birds and
squirrels) are quick to jump on broadcast seeds. Hand planting
individual seeds by hammering a nail into the soil to make holes, over
about 8,000 square feet, is doable but daunting.

Does anyone have any suggestions for elegantly and inexpensively
improving the soil? It is a permaculture challenge right now.

Thanks,
Amanda Gilbert
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Best Regards,

William Genest

- Founder Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
www.greenmountainpermaculture.com

- Creator "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
www.regenerationshow.com

- Ecological Coordinator
Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course

- Vice-President Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
www.pvq.qc.ca

- National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
"The Future is Now ! "
www.greenparty.ca



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