permaculture

[mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>]

I was looking at a property (for a possible juice vineyard) that had  
a 12 acre ridgetop field that had been in corn for generations.  It  
was now in sort of a feeble pasture and the soil was a clay-gravel  
hardpan, I couldn't even scuff it after kicking it with my feet.  I  
was trying to think if there was anything I could do to reclaim  
something like this.  The amount of compost it would take to make a  
dent here would be astronomical.  The only other things I could think  
of were ripping it with a yeoman's plow & maybe berm & swale on  
contour.  Seems much more practical with something like this to put  
it in forest garden & let the trees do the work.

~mIEKAL

On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Shane Perry wrote:

> Amanda,
>     I would think that if you could get your hands on a truck, with a
> little bit of calling around, perhaps to the county extensions office,
> you could locate plenty of good compostable materials for sheet  
> mulching
>   inexpensively, if not free.  I like in C'ville VA and I think  
> that if
> you called the extensions office closer to Culpeper you would be  
> able to
> get your hands on some cheap straw bales and manure from the local
> farms.  It won't be completely free (i.e. gas to get there, etc.) but
> it's as close as it gets!  Hope this helps.
>
> Shane
>
> neshura wrote:
>
> > Yes, building up was already in the plan, I've done a raised bed herb
> > garden (costly due to the compost), but the rate at which our
> > household generates compostables is not very high, and low-cost
> > resources for mulch are now closed for the year. That is why I was
> > asking if there was any way to keep from writing off direct
> > improvement of the existing soil re possible techniques for planting
> > and protecting cover crops.
> >
> > I will see what the leaf fall is like this autumn -- I'm not certain
> > of the type of maple but despite being huge trees, the canopy is tiny
> > -- they don't grow any side branches (perhaps not maples, they may
> > have been misidentified to me). Covering 8,000 square feet to any
> > significant depth would take many many cubic feet of material, and  
> > the
> > wallet shrieks in terror at the prospect of trying to do that without
> > waiting for several years of leaf fall. I will resign myself to
> > gardening in the 6 sq ft raised bed herb garden for the next few
> > years.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > On 9/14/05, margi <oaksong@peak.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > All those maple leaves can be added to the soil used to "uppen" it!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > William Genest wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Uppen" it !
> > > >
> > > > Don't dig down, build up - Raised beds - lots and lots of mulch and
> > > > organic matter...
> > > >
> > > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:08 PM, neshura wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hello all!
> > > > >
> > > > > I rent a suburban property in hot-and-humid Alexandria, VA.  
> > > > > There are
> > > > > four beautiful maples in the back yard and a cypress in the  
> > > > > front, and
> > > > > the property is largely covered in lovely dappled shade for  
> > > > > most of
> > > > > the summer. It is ideal for gardening except for one factor -- the
> > > > > tilth, or rather lack thereof. The soil is completely  
> > > > > impenetrable by
> > > > > normal human effort.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have tried denting the soil with:
> > > > >
> > > > > * a shovel
> > > > > * a spade with a sharpened edge
> > > > > * hand tools
> > > > > * a garden "claw"
> > > > >
> > > > > and finally, an earth auger hooked up to a power drill.
> > > > >
> > > > > The net effect of all of these methods, across several test  
> > > > > spots in
> > > > > the yard, was merely the generation of a few small puffs of
> > > > > light-colored dust with absolutely no penetration into the  
> > > > > soil. The
> > > > > established grass grows fine, the established daylilies struggle
> > > > > along, and the virginia creeper and morning glory do just fine  
> > > > > around
> > > > > the edges of the property. There's plenty of water; the house  
> > > > > has an
> > > > > active sump pump and we have to carefully redirect gutter water  
> > > > > away
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > from the foundation because the water table is so close to the  
> > > > > surface
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > here.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't want to rototill, not least because it would risk  
> > > > > damaging the
> > > > > tree roots. I had some thought of using cover crops or daikon  
> > > > > to try
> > > > > to break up the soil, but the thriving urban wildlife (birds and
> > > > > squirrels) are quick to jump on broadcast seeds. Hand planting
> > > > > individual seeds by hammering a nail into the soil to make  
> > > > > holes, over
> > > > > about 8,000 square feet, is doable but daunting.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions for elegantly and inexpensively
> > > > > improving the soil? It is a permaculture challenge right now.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Amanda Gilbert
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > William Genest
> > > >
> > > > - Founder  Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
> > > > Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
> > > > www.greenmountainpermaculture.com
> > > >
> > > > - Creator  "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
> > > > From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
> > > > www.regenerationshow.com
> > > >
> > > > - Ecological Coordinator
> > > > Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course
> > > >
> > > > - Vice-President  Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
> > > > www.pvq.qc.ca
> > > >
> > > > - National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
> > > > "The Future is Now ! "
> > > > www.greenparty.ca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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