permaculture

[William Genest <genest@pivot.net>]

No I actually antcipated it and was going to adress it - the short  
answer is Ruth Stout's book - basic idea is you lay the hay on THICK  
so that weed seeds can't germinate through and if they do - lay a  
bunch more on THICK - what I mean by that is, you don't gingerly  
spread it around, but take big fat chunks off the bale like "books" -  
( trying to get a visual to say that the bale is comprised of book- 
width flattened sections and you use those directly without breaking  
them up) -

Other things I do : Spread buckwheat as a green manure over the  
hay..... Let the hay rot down before using it.....Have the chickens  
go after the hay once spread.....

But even if you do none of this it's been my experience that weed  
seeds are no issue as long as the hay is on think and NOT removed  
( if you remove it, you leave all the seeds behind and expose them to  
light)


On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:51 AM, Shane Perry wrote:

> I've been seeing those all over the place where I live.  Up to this
> point I've avoided them because I didn't want whatever fescue that was
> growing in the field dominating my garden.  Have you tried this
> yourself?  I'm curious as to weed issues that arise from using hay  
> as a
> sheet mulching compound.  Sorry if this is a noob question.
>
> Shane
>
> William Genest wrote:
>
> > One cheap sourse of mulch this time of year are those huge round
> > bales of hay that get left out and rained on and are considered
> > useless - have a couple of those trucked in and plopped into your
> > raised beds ( which needn't be more elaborate than something to hold
> > in the pile say two feet high - then add a layer of compost above
> > that - Voila !
> >
> > On Sep 14, 2005, at 5:07 PM, neshura wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Yes, building up was already in the plan, I've done a raised bed  
> > > herb
> > > garden (costly due to the compost), but the rate at which our
> > > household generates compostables is not very high, and low-cost
> > > resources for mulch are now closed for the year. That is why I was
> > > asking if there was any way to keep from writing off direct
> > > improvement of the existing soil re possible techniques for planting
> > > and protecting cover crops.
> > >
> > > I will see what the leaf fall is like this autumn -- I'm not certain
> > > of the type of maple but despite being huge trees, the canopy is  
> > > tiny
> > > -- they don't grow any side branches (perhaps not maples, they may
> > > have been misidentified to me). Covering 8,000 square feet to any
> > > significant depth would take many many cubic feet of material,  
> > > and the
> > > wallet shrieks in terror at the prospect of trying to do that  
> > > without
> > > waiting for several years of leaf fall. I will resign myself to
> > > gardening in the 6 sq ft raised bed herb garden for the next few
> > > years.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/14/05, margi <oaksong@peak.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > All those maple leaves can be added to the soil used to "uppen" it!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > William Genest wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > "Uppen" it !
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't dig down, build up - Raised beds - lots and lots of mulch  
> > > > > and
> > > > > organic matter...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:08 PM, neshura wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello all!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I rent a suburban property in hot-and-humid Alexandria, VA.
> > > > > > There are
> > > > > > four beautiful maples in the back yard and a cypress in the
> > > > > > front, and
> > > > > > the property is largely covered in lovely dappled shade for  
> > > > > > most of
> > > > > > the summer. It is ideal for gardening except for one factor --  
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > tilth, or rather lack thereof. The soil is completely
> > > > > > impenetrable by
> > > > > > normal human effort.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have tried denting the soil with:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * a shovel
> > > > > > * a spade with a sharpened edge
> > > > > > * hand tools
> > > > > > * a garden "claw"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and finally, an earth auger hooked up to a power drill.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The net effect of all of these methods, across several test
> > > > > > spots in
> > > > > > the yard, was merely the generation of a few small puffs of
> > > > > > light-colored dust with absolutely no penetration into the soil.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > established grass grows fine, the established daylilies struggle
> > > > > > along, and the virginia creeper and morning glory do just fine
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > the edges of the property. There's plenty of water; the house
> > > > > > has an
> > > > > > active sump pump and we have to carefully redirect gutter water
> > > > > > away
> > > > > > from the foundation because the water table is so close to the
> > > > > > surface
> > > > > > here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't want to rototill, not least because it would risk
> > > > > > damaging the
> > > > > > tree roots. I had some thought of using cover crops or daikon to
> > > > > > try
> > > > > > to break up the soil, but the thriving urban wildlife (birds and
> > > > > > squirrels) are quick to jump on broadcast seeds. Hand planting
> > > > > > individual seeds by hammering a nail into the soil to make
> > > > > > holes, over
> > > > > > about 8,000 square feet, is doable but daunting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions for elegantly and inexpensively
> > > > > > improving the soil? It is a permaculture challenge right now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Amanda Gilbert
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > William Genest
> > > > >
> > > > > - Founder  Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
> > > > > Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
> > > > > www.greenmountainpermaculture.com
> > > > >
> > > > > - Creator  "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
> > > > > From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
> > > > > www.regenerationshow.com
> > > > >
> > > > > - Ecological Coordinator
> > > > > Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course
> > > > >
> > > > > - Vice-President  Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
> > > > > www.pvq.qc.ca
> > > > >
> > > > > - National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
> > > > > "The Future is Now ! "
> > > > > www.greenparty.ca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >   William Genest
> >
> >   - Founder  Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
> > Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
> > www.greenmountainpermaculture.com
> >
> > - Creator  "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
> >  From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
> > www.regenerationshow.com
> >
> > - Ecological Coordinator
> > Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course
> >
> > - Vice-President  Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
> > www.pvq.qc.ca
> >
> > - National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
> > "The Future is Now ! "
> > www.greenparty.ca
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture

Best Regards,

 William Genest

 - Founder  Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
www.greenmountainpermaculture.com

- Creator  "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
www.regenerationshow.com

- Ecological Coordinator
Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course

- Vice-President  Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
www.pvq.qc.ca

- National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
"The Future is Now ! "
www.greenparty.ca