Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] dealing with hard ground

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: William Genest <genest@pivot.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] dealing with hard ground
  • Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:16:36 -0400

No I actually antcipated it and was going to adress it - the short answer is Ruth Stout's book - basic idea is you lay the hay on THICK so that weed seeds can't germinate through and if they do - lay a bunch more on THICK - what I mean by that is, you don't gingerly spread it around, but take big fat chunks off the bale like "books" - ( trying to get a visual to say that the bale is comprised of book- width flattened sections and you use those directly without breaking them up) -

Other things I do : Spread buckwheat as a green manure over the hay..... Let the hay rot down before using it.....Have the chickens go after the hay once spread.....

But even if you do none of this it's been my experience that weed seeds are no issue as long as the hay is on think and NOT removed ( if you remove it, you leave all the seeds behind and expose them to light)


On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:51 AM, Shane Perry wrote:

I've been seeing those all over the place where I live. Up to this
point I've avoided them because I didn't want whatever fescue that was
growing in the field dominating my garden. Have you tried this
yourself? I'm curious as to weed issues that arise from using hay as a
sheet mulching compound. Sorry if this is a noob question.

Shane

William Genest wrote:

One cheap sourse of mulch this time of year are those huge round
bales of hay that get left out and rained on and are considered
useless - have a couple of those trucked in and plopped into your
raised beds ( which needn't be more elaborate than something to hold
in the pile say two feet high - then add a layer of compost above
that - Voila !

On Sep 14, 2005, at 5:07 PM, neshura wrote:



Yes, building up was already in the plan, I've done a raised bed herb
garden (costly due to the compost), but the rate at which our
household generates compostables is not very high, and low-cost
resources for mulch are now closed for the year. That is why I was
asking if there was any way to keep from writing off direct
improvement of the existing soil re possible techniques for planting
and protecting cover crops.

I will see what the leaf fall is like this autumn -- I'm not certain
of the type of maple but despite being huge trees, the canopy is tiny
-- they don't grow any side branches (perhaps not maples, they may
have been misidentified to me). Covering 8,000 square feet to any
significant depth would take many many cubic feet of material, and the
wallet shrieks in terror at the prospect of trying to do that without
waiting for several years of leaf fall. I will resign myself to
gardening in the 6 sq ft raised bed herb garden for the next few
years.

Thanks.


On 9/14/05, margi <oaksong@peak.org> wrote:



All those maple leaves can be added to the soil used to "uppen" it!



William Genest wrote:




"Uppen" it !

Don't dig down, build up - Raised beds - lots and lots of mulch and
organic matter...

On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:08 PM, neshura wrote:






Hello all!

I rent a suburban property in hot-and-humid Alexandria, VA.
There are
four beautiful maples in the back yard and a cypress in the
front, and
the property is largely covered in lovely dappled shade for most of
the summer. It is ideal for gardening except for one factor -- the
tilth, or rather lack thereof. The soil is completely
impenetrable by
normal human effort.

I have tried denting the soil with:

* a shovel
* a spade with a sharpened edge
* hand tools
* a garden "claw"

and finally, an earth auger hooked up to a power drill.

The net effect of all of these methods, across several test
spots in
the yard, was merely the generation of a few small puffs of
light-colored dust with absolutely no penetration into the soil.
The
established grass grows fine, the established daylilies struggle
along, and the virginia creeper and morning glory do just fine
around
the edges of the property. There's plenty of water; the house
has an
active sump pump and we have to carefully redirect gutter water
away
from the foundation because the water table is so close to the
surface
here.

I don't want to rototill, not least because it would risk
damaging the
tree roots. I had some thought of using cover crops or daikon to
try
to break up the soil, but the thriving urban wildlife (birds and
squirrels) are quick to jump on broadcast seeds. Hand planting
individual seeds by hammering a nail into the soil to make
holes, over
about 8,000 square feet, is doable but daunting.

Does anyone have any suggestions for elegantly and inexpensively
improving the soil? It is a permaculture challenge right now.

Thanks,
Amanda Gilbert
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture







Best Regards,

William Genest

- Founder Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
www.greenmountainpermaculture.com

- Creator "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
www.regenerationshow.com

- Ecological Coordinator
Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course

- Vice-President Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
www.pvq.qc.ca

- National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
"The Future is Now ! "
www.greenparty.ca



_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture







_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture




_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture





Best Regards,

William Genest

- Founder Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
www.greenmountainpermaculture.com

- Creator "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
www.regenerationshow.com

- Ecological Coordinator
Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course

- Vice-President Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
www.pvq.qc.ca

- National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
"The Future is Now ! "
www.greenparty.ca



_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture



Best Regards,

William Genest

- Founder Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont
Solutions, Sustenance, Sustainability
www.greenmountainpermaculture.com

- Creator "Regeneration - The Art of Sustainable Living"
From "Something-Must-be-Done" to Something we can do !
www.regenerationshow.com

- Ecological Coordinator
Club St.Paul Ecological Golf Course

- Vice-President Green Party of Quebec "pour nous et nos enfants"
www.pvq.qc.ca

- National Spokesperson Green Party of Canada
"The Future is Now ! "
www.greenparty.ca







Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page