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  • From: Sean Maley <semaley@yahoo.com>
  • To: David Neeley <dbneeley@gmail.com>, permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc:
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: Linux software
  • Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:34:30 -0800 (PST)

There is no such thing as being dated when it comes to
Linux. It still isn't much of a rival to priprietary
UNIX flavors. However, it has been inching ever
closer, and has been beyond windows for some time.
Nevertheless, things are fundamentally the same, just
more and more features for the desktop users and
neophytes.

Fedora Core (Red Hat isn't free anymore, so they have
FC as the free distribution brand) was marvelously
simple to install. In fact, I didn't do much beyond
plug the CD into the tray and reboot. I still prefer
getting a burned copy from a friend or making my own,
rather than pay for documentation and support that I
find on the internet anyway.

For those moving past the GUI, my recent experience
with yum was astounding. Imagine a utility that you
just tell it what you want and it goes and finds it on
the internet and installs it for you; under the covers
it's more complicated, but a layman can install UNIX
goodies without focusing on make files, rpm, or
tarballs. Keeping up to date with software couldn't
be much easier.

For those who only wish to deal with the GUI, make a
friend, especially if you have an always on high speed
connection to host web sites. You could be there in
somebody else's emergency, which is worth the effort
to help you set up the non-GUI portions to handle your
new web site. Just be careful to get to know those
that you let use your machine; trust should be earned
in this case.

My recommedation is to pick up a second hand router
somebody is dumping for their new wireless router;
take their extra rj-45 cables that they should have
used. Drag a PC in off a city street where they get
dumped regularly; get it before the rain hits it. You
can switch the current monitor and keyboard while you
set up the new to you linux server. No loss, but
time, if you don't like it. Remember that MS has us
trained to reject anything that doesn't work the same
way, so be patient to observe some new patterns (you
may come to prefer them). Let me know if you have any
snags, I'll see if I can help.

Anyone try to send the ventilation air to a composter?


-Sean.
--- David Neeley <dbneeley@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bart,
>
> With respect, your information about Linux is, I
> think, rather dated.
>
> Installation on the top distributions is now *less*
> painful than
> Windows installation in most cases. Specifically,
> both Knoppix and
> SuSE (which I have recently installed on various
> machines) are
> incredibly easy to install nearly everywhere.
>
> > I don't think I would recommend Linux for someone
> who just wants to do
> > normal PC tasks, such as wordprocessing,
> spreadsheets, email, and web
> > design.
>
> Office tasks such as word processing, spreadsheets,
> and such are both
> simple and very easy to do on a Linux machine
> today...with better
> performance and fewer crashes than on a Windows box.
>
> Email is better on Linux, I think, with much less in
> the way of virus
> and security problems to deal with...and, the
> Internet performance is
> far faster.
>
> Web design I might agree with you, especially if
> someone is an
> accomplished and enthusiastic Dreamweaver user. For
> those who are not,
> though, a very good case can be made for web
> authoring on Linux as
> well.
>
> > In my case, I bought RedHat Linux but never
> installed it on our home PC
> > since Windows 2000 is pretty good and for
> technical reasons, installing
> > Linux would be complicated in my situation. If I
> had a spare PC and space
> > to put it, I would probably install Linux on it,
> since I like the Linux
> > working environment so much.
>
> Anyone with an extra gig or two of hard disk space
> should be able to
> install Linux in a dual-boot configuration rather
> easily using any of
> a number of current distributions. I would agree
> that Red Hat would
> not be my first choice, however, for ease of
> installation has never
> been used much in the same sentence as "Red Hat."
>
> > 2. It's a wonderful way to learn about computers
> and computer science.
> > You're working close to the flywheels and cogs, so
> it's easier to see how
> > things work.
>
> This is true *if you wish it*...but the majority of
> new users in Linux
> today stick with the GUI interface and rarely get
> very close to the
> internals.
>
> > 3. The UNIX/Linux working environment is very
> appealing to a certain nerdy
> > mindset. You can customize your tools and
> exercise control over the machine
> > to a degreee that is not possible in Windows.
>
> Very true. Very liberating, also...you can make your
> machine look the
> way *you* want to.
>
> > 4. The operating system is much more stable than
> Microsoft, whose Windows
> > mutates every few years (Win 95, to NT, to 2000,
> to XP). Also, there are
> > fewer viruses and attacks on Linux.
>
> To be fair, Linux "mutates" very frequently. As with
> Windows, though,
> many people don't upgrade it just to upgrade it;
> there are many
> systems running happily that have never been down
> for three years or
> more.
>
> > 5. With Linux, one can make use of old PCs that
> are not powerful enough to
> > run the latest version of Windows.
>
> True. However, the "latest and greatest" versions of
> Linux with the
> most complex graphical environments also can consume
> many machine
> resources...but with Linux, you have a huge range of
> choice.
>
> > 6. You get out of Microsoft's clutches and can
> save money on software. The
> > money saved can be substantial with large number
> of users. (For just a few
> > people, I don't think it's that big a deal,
> considering the learning curve.)
>
> Depends. For a single user with a very small budget,
> Linux can be a
> total Godsend. Consider Suse Professional, for
> instance...it *ships*
> with about 3,500 applications included. Thus, the
> $90 you spend on the
> OS and substantial printed docs may well be the last
> money you need to
> spend on software or documentation.
>
> >
> > > Is another OS
> > > going to require a major learning curve and a
> huge amount of time
> > > reloading all my software?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Not necessarily. In fact, there are products such as
> "Cross-Over
> Office" that will allow people to run Microsoft
> Office and other
> popular Windows apps directly on Linux--with more
> performance than
> they'd run on Windows on the same hardware and with
> fewer crashes!
>
> >
> > 2. Getting Linux installed and configured on a PC
> is not trivial. I see
> > that PCs are now being sold with Linux already
> installed -- a step forward.
> > Also, RedHat and other distributions of Linux make
> the process MUCH easier
> > than it used to be.
>
> Today, many of the Linux distributions often ARE
> quite trivial to
> install. Again, you are somewhat behind the times.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>




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