permaculture

["Cochran, Jason" <jcochran@pa.peacecorps.gov>]

Great suggestions George Anna- one thing I have heard of but not tested is
the role Canavalia leaves play in destroying the fungus of leaf cutter ants,
has anyone else out there seen this take place?  Also I ran across some
scientific articles citing the role of epiphylls fungus growing on
grapefruit leaves as a repellent (the ants will not cut the leaves that have
the epiphylls growing on it)
Oecologia. v. 86. p. 36-39. 1991.

Can anyone out there substantiate these observations?
Thanks!
Jason Cochran


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:10 AM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 17, Issue 10


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Today's Topics:

   1. The Real Green Revolution is about rainwater      harvesting.
      (Wesley Roe and Marjorie Lakin Erickson)
   2. Re: Ecovillage design (E.Christopher Mare)
   3. leaf cutter ants (George Anna Clark)
   4. Re: leaf cutter ants (Mike Barnett)
   5. Natural agriculture crop successions (ontignano)
   6. Re: Natural agriculture crop successions (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
   7. [Fwd: [fukuoka_farming] Vegetable Seedballs]
      (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 09:58:30 -0700
From: Wesley Roe and Marjorie Lakin Erickson <lakinroe@silcom.com>
Subject: [permaculture] The Real Green Revolution is about rainwater
        harvesting.
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040609095748.069694e0@mail.silcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed

"The Real Green Revolution is about rainwater harvesting.
Let us catch water where it falls. Let it transform human lives. Let it 
change social existence. If this happens, the world will be transformed. 
The world will merely be an agglomeration of ecological-rainwater 
harvesting-democracies."        
- Anil Agarwal
Founder-Director, CSE

Jal Swaraj  www.rainwaterharvesting.org/  An Amazing website with great 
research tools like Ruoff Calculator and more

The Centre for Science and Environment, a New Delhi based non-governmental 
organisation (NGO) has been promoting the revival of traditional systems of 
water harvesting as a practical solution for drought proofing the affected 
areas. The organisation has developed a comprehensive strategy to further 
the impact of its campaign for participatory, equitable and decentralised 
paradigm for water management. A look at the Jal swaraj campaign:

The journey so far...
Mid-1980s: CSE set out to undertake a massive exercise- to document India's 
traditions in rainwater harvesting.

1990: Organised a national conference on India's traditions in water 
harvesting.

1997: Published Dying Wisdom: The rise, fall and potential of India's 
traditional water harvesting traditions-a book with a powerful message.

1998: Organised Potential of Water Harvesting: Technologies, Policies and 
Social Mobilisation, an international conference of water harvesting 
practioners and thinkers. President K R Narayanan inaugurated it and Chief 
minister of Madhya Pradesh closed it.

1999: January, Released Water Links, a directory of water harvesters in 
India and abroad.

1999: February, Began publishing bimonthly newsletter, Catch Water.

1999: April, Launched National Water Harvesters Network, with its first 
state unit set up in Chennai, under Dr A Vaidyanathan. A national steering 
committee was formed to guide the network members.

1999: November, Began Water Harvesting Advisory Services to provide designs 
to people, free of cost.

2000: May,Led its first Paani Yatra (Water Pilgrimage) to Gujarat. It has 
since organised four such trips in different parts of the country.

2000: June,Released a manual on Urban Rain Water Harvesting.

2000: July,Anil Agarwal addressed Prime Minister, members of Union Cabinet 
and state governors to drive home the significance water harvesting.

2001: March, Published Making Water Everybody's Business: Practice and 
Policy of Water Harvesting, a manual to make water harvesting a mass
movement.

2002: July, Unveils its first Rain Centre-a permanently set up exhibitions 
that seek to spread water literacy among urban Indians--in Chennai, in 
collaboration with Akash Ganga Trust

2002: October, Launches its Campaign to Protect Urban Wetlands with a 
two-day long workshop; constitutes a core committee of experts and 
individuals working on the issues; and sets up CSE Lake Net, a web-based 
discussion group

2002-2003: Sets up a chain of eleven model rainwater harvesting projects in 
Delhi, as tools to establish the fact that the technique can be implemented 
successfully by all concerned individuals in urban India who are looking 
for a way to fulfill their own demands.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:00:22 -0400
From: "E.Christopher Mare" <ecmare@antiochsea.edu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ecovillage design
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
        <fc.00757e2a01b0c8b93b9aca0016b9226d.1b0c948@antiochne.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi all,
where could I find material about permaculture applied to ecovillage
design?
Actually what I am most interested at is teaching material related to this
subject for a basic course.
All the best

Antonio Scotti

Dear Antonio,
There just occurred a big GEN meeting concerned with creating Ecovillage
Design curriculum.
For more information contact your European representatives:
ina@gen-europe.org  - or -
jonathan@gen-europe.org

ta,



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:02:17 -0600
From: George Anna Clark <esac@laneta.apc.org>
Subject: [permaculture] leaf cutter ants
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040609103335.019dd0d0@laneta.apc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Vaya, Jason, good question... I'm in south central Mexico with the same 
"problem" - it ties for first with the white fly as our most economically 
damaging pest.

What I've learned... the cut leaves are for feeding acid-loving fungi in 
the ant hills. Thus, they love to carry citris peel down into their ant 
hills, and prefer this to just about anything else. This worked for me as 
long as I had a neighborhood "fast-food fruit vendor" and  the time to pick 
up a bucketful of peels per day (long time ago).

They can't manage to pass over a plastic "skirt" when tied around trees: 
cut a strip of reasonably durable plastic - a few cms longer than the girth 
of the tree, and  about 20 cms wide. Wrap the strip around the trunk below 
the first branch and tie it with a string towards the bottom of the 
plastic. Then fold the plastic down to make a skirt. This works wonderfully 
as long as the plastic doesn't collapse and touch the tree, or a plant 
stalk of some sort makes a bridge on or above the skirt. Requires checking 
periodically, but really does the trick.

What doesn't work: herbs that supposedly work for ants in the house:: like 
mint, etc. The leaf cutters devoured them. Sesame leaves... ditto. They 
also LOVE hibiscus and are now quite happily devoted to erasing a mound of 
cut branches which I left from last year's crop (i was going to compost 
them but if this saves this year hibiscus' crop I'll make this a practice). 
Intercropping hibiscus within the corn also didn't work... although maybe 
if I had planted the corn earlier????

People absolutely swear by the approach of putting ant manure from a 
"foreign" anthill in or beside or  on top of the anthill you want gone. 
Some add that you have to get it from another city/state whatever to ensure 
that it is REALLY a foreign anthill. Supposed to cause internal caos, civil 
war, bloody massacres, etc.  But it just hasn't worked for me, must have 
pacifist ants.

Two strategies which I haven't yet ruled out...  pouring najayote (the 
liquid left over when boiling maize to make tortillas - a very alcaline 
substance) down the anthill. This obviously creates an alkaline 
environment, and the ants didn't appreciate it much, they closed old 
openings and made new ones. But I think you have to do this repeatedly for 
weeks, or get thousands of liters at once (quite possible in Mexico). Ant 
hills are long systems, and I would bet they have elevated places for their 
fungi -like gophers- to prevent flooding problems.

The other is sprinkling ground charcoal around the holes - supposedly 
messes up their sense of smell and they don't identify the food source. 
Perhaps this could work for protecting newly germinating plants, don't 
think it works if it's applied after they've found what they've looked
for...

Other thoughts... my soil is slightly on the alkaline side, so I don't want 
to pour lime down the anthills, and acid-loving fungus could be a good 
thing. Also, the ants are making very loose soil out of rather compacted 
stuff. So if I can just keep them busy on the hibiscus plants... but this 
is wishful thinking, they do like a varied diet, besides those mentioned 
above... basil, young tomato plants, okra, sorghum, chives, motherwort. 
Have left the brassica and cucurbita (sp?) families alone... Unfortunately, 
the climate is poor for brassicas and the white flies love the cucurbitas...

good luck and PUL-LEASE report back if you find other ideas....
george anna

At 10:24 a.m. 08/06/2004, you wrote:
>I am working in tropical agriculture in Panama and would like to know
>information for controlling leaf-cutter ants



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 23:42:45 -0600
From: "Mike Barnett" <dreadlox@cwjamaica.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] leaf cutter ants
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <00fe01c44ead$c2304ab0$2320a3d0@valuedwymuwnjd>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

This was a very very nice mail... I enjoyed it thoroughly...


Have you ever thought of trying neem oil to repel them?
What about using a very strong essential oil...that messes up their
smell...garlic eucalyptus, peppermint, lemongrass?

Injecting Boiling water into the nest..??
Black Plastic barrier around the field...?
Sand around tree trunks?
Scent barrier around trees/plants that you want...
How "permaculture" is the use of boric acid as a deterrent? Soak some citrus
peels in that and let them bring that home? I use the same trick but I mix
some sardine oil with banana, and then add some sugar to make a syrup, mix
with boric acid? It works for me with all the other ants, and my mix draws
them out of every crevice...the take it home to feed the others and soon no
more ants...

What about using beneficial fungii that could be cultured from healthy
rotting wood that can counteract their fungi in the breakdown of
material...(maan those ants would go nuts, if fungii would just "mushroom"
ooutta knowwhere....especially in their storeroom??!!) Spray/inject that
culture into the perimeter and "heart" of their nests...

What about a bacteria that attacks the ants, their eggs, or the rotting food
stores?

Natural pest? (Rent-an-anteater??)

( I Loved the suggestion of changing ph....!!)
What about bitterwood extracts....check out quassia (active ingredient
quassine) to spray around your good plants..

Anyone have similar ideas from keeping away goats out of my plants??
Any tried and true ideas? Offline ideas welcome too...



PS. (sorry if the boric acid is outta line... Im still learning...)

Mike
JAMAICA


----- Original Message -----
From: "George Anna Clark" <esac@laneta.apc.org>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: [permaculture] leaf cutter ants


> Vaya, Jason, good question... I'm in south central Mexico with the same
> "problem" - it ties for first with the white fly as our most economically
> damaging pest.
>
> What I've learned... the cut leaves are for feeding acid-loving fungi in
> the ant hills. Thus, they love to carry citris peel down into their ant
> hills, and prefer this to just about anything else. This worked for me as
> long as I had a neighborhood "fast-food fruit vendor" and  the time to
pick
> up a bucketful of peels per day (long time ago).
>





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:49:48 +0200
From: "ontignano" <ontignano@tiscali.fr>
Subject: [permaculture] Natural agriculture crop successions
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <NHBBLOLOALIFJLOMIHONGEMKCFAA.ontignano@tiscali.fr>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello everyone, I wonder if there's anyone on this list experimenting with
crop successions similar to those pioneered by Masanobu Fukuoka, I'm
thinking particularly of his rice and winter wheat or barley succession. I'm
sure there have been many North American, Australasian and European attempts
to mimic his success using different cereal and bean crops, summer: soya,
millet, sorghum, lentil, chick pea, amaranth, quinoa, maize, sunflower etc
and winter: wheat, barley, oats, rye etc over the last 20-25 years. If there
's no first hand information, has there been a book suggesting such
combinations and the relative successes or failures? Alternatively, is there
anyone experimenting with the Marc Bonfils Method of Winter Wheat, who might
have tried some of these different crops within a clover cover crop? Is
there someone experimenting with different cover crops, especially those for
dryland conditions?

Any information or pointers to further sources would be appreciated.

To all those inspired by Fukuoka, the man and his work, there is some hope,
health permitting (he is 93), that he will be in Europe this summer to speak
at an International climate change conference. I'll provide more details
closer to the time.

Jamie



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:42:23 -0700
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Natural agriculture crop successions
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <40C8AB8F.4030702@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

ontignano wrote:
> Hello everyone, I wonder if there's anyone on this list experimenting with
> crop successions similar to those pioneered by Masanobu Fukuoka, I'm
> thinking particularly of his rice and winter wheat or barley succession.
I'm
> sure there have been many North American, Australasian and European
attempts
> to mimic his success using different cereal and bean crops, summer: soya,
> millet, sorghum, lentil, chick pea, amaranth, quinoa, maize, sunflower etc
> and winter: wheat, barley, oats, rye etc over the last 20-25 years. If
there
> 's no first hand information, has there been a book suggesting such
> combinations and the relative successes or failures? Alternatively, is
there
> anyone experimenting with the Marc Bonfils Method of Winter Wheat, who
might
> have tried some of these different crops within a clover cover crop? Is
> there someone experimenting with different cover crops, especially those
for
> dryland conditions?
> 
> Any information or pointers to further sources would be appreciated.
> 
> To all those inspired by Fukuoka, the man and his work, there is some
hope,
> health permitting (he is 93), that he will be in Europe this summer to
speak
> at an International climate change conference. I'll provide more details
> closer to the time.
> 
> Jamie


Jamie:

There is a Fukuoka Frming mailing list on Yahoo. I have subscribed to it and
will forward your query there.
This is the posting ID for that list:
fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
search Yahoo lists for "fukuoka_farming" to find the homepage and subscribe
location.

Isn't there an Amelia Hazelip list also? Do you have subscribe info.
Could you also tell us something about her life and accomplishments?

I finally got my copy of the French-made nature documentary "Microcosmos".
Wonderful.
Do you know where the film was made?

I would like to try doing something like that myself on reduced scale but
with more emphasis on
permaculture and installed permaculture systems.

Hoping to put in another small frog pool in a bottom area today. Have skid
loader on site spreading yet more rock dusts,
building berms, grading areas to be landscaped and fine tuning drainage over
a large area for garden irrigation and nutrient catchments.

LL
-- 
L.F.London
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:46:08 -0700
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: [fukuoka_farming] Vegetable Seedballs]
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <40C8AC70.5000109@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed


-------- Original Message --------
Subject:        [fukuoka_farming] Vegetable Seedballs
Date:   Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:45:13 -0000
From:   benonthenet <benonthenet@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:       fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
To:     fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com


HI everybody!

Looking for your feedback...

I've tried seedballs (containing seeds for drought tolerant
ornamentals) once before and didn't have the big success I was hoping
for. I made my seedballs way too big. I put them out during the
summer when there wasn't any rain and started watering them. Problem
is that I didn't keep up the watering. So most of the seeds simply
died from lack of moisture. Next try will be at the beginning of the
rainy season.

Has anyone used seedballs to get vegetables going? What kind of
vegetable seeds did you use? What were your results?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Yahoo! Groups Links*

     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/

     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
       fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 
<mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

  --
L.F.London
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech



------------------------------

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