permaculture

[Charles Knoles <charles@growfood.org>]

I have to echo mIEKAL aND's take on Sea buckthorns.  I've planted them here 
in Iowa (zone 5, heavy clay soil) and they grow but don't produce 
fruit.   All the local fruit freaks have sworn off them including Tom Wahl 
who says he will never plant one again.

Looking at their native range though I would guess that this is due to the 
heavy clay soil rather than the cold.  They are native to sand dunes in 
Russia and have become a pest plant on the coastlines in many parts of 
Europe where they have been introduced.  3 years ago I planted a row of 
them on a friend's land near here. The row went down a very mild grade at 
the bottom of which, water collected. The trees showed an enormous increase 
in growth the further away from water they were.  7-8 feet tall on the 
uphill end and 4-5 feet tall at the downhill end.  I think they just like 
really well drained sandy soil in which case Samm's land might be 
perfect.   I'd want to check out if there are any locals who have planted 
Sea buckthorns and gotten fruit from them otherwise do a test planting of 
them and *please* tell us how it goes, I am very intrigued by this plant 
and would love to know their full productive range in N. America.

Charlie


>    1. Re[2]: [permaculture] Sandy soil (Ute Bohnsack)
>  The question is, can you grow Hippophae in Northern Wisconsin?
>  Perhaps you have to look at other species (e.g. Caragana, Elaeagnus).
>  I planted some Hippophae around my first little 'orchard' here in
>  Ireland. The apples are seven years old, the sea buckthorn 5, but the
>  sea buckthorn are twice the size of the apple trees now even though they 
> were only a
>  foot high when planted. But then I'm in a temperate atlantic climate
>  here. Sea buckthorn also suckers - not a problem for me as I
>  transplant them or simply mow them down, but this could be a problem
>  with annual cropping in between rows.
>
>    All the best,
>    Ute
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:53:03 -0800
> From: mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 9, Issue 39
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <CB1A77F5-0F32-11D8-A558-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> I have a lot of 6 year old seabuckthorn, mixed planting seedlings which
> are only a meter & half high & have shown no signs of fruiting.  & in
> the heavy clayloam soils here they also show no sign of suckering or
> getting out of control.  One of the keys to an alleycrop interplant in
> wisconsin should be that it starts bearing in 3 years & productive by
> 4-5.  here in southwest WI, that would be gooseberries, currants,
> elderberries, grapes, bush cherries, siberian C peaches, sunchokes,
> groundnut, curly willow & basket willows....  if youre interested in
> taste, flavor, disease resistence, productivity then varietal choices
> are really important.  one of the wisest sources I know of for that
> detail of  information is NAFEX.  their archives is searchable at:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/nafex/ & I highly recommend the list
> as well.  there's even a few permaculturaholics subscribed.
>
> mIEKAL