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  • From: "Treesa Jane Rogerson" <treesa@joimail.com>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] RE: Stained urbanite?
  • Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:59:43 -0700

just spray them.

the sides that have not been exposed to air will stain heavier (darker)

T


Treesa Rogerson, M.A.

Lands Alive : Ecology By Design

treemail@yahoo.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ingrid" <ingrid@earthlysites.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:24 AM
Subject: [permaculture] RE: Stained urbanite?


>
> Thanks for the info. A key piece of what i'm considering is how the
removed
> chunks of concrete will stain. Anyone done this? The underside will
> probably show more aggregate which i'm not sure about reacting. Also,
would
> it make sense to spray or dunk the chunks?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 5, Issue 60
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Keeping your cool.... (Russ Grayson)
> 2. Re: the hydrogen argument (robert waldrop)
> 3. Re: Stained urbanite? (Rick Valley)
> 4. Re: Keeping your cool.... (robert waldrop)
> 5. Re: Stained urbanite? (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
> 6. Re: Good Thistle... (Rick Valley)
> 7. RE: [permaculture]Hydrogen, wood, peace, justice (Michael Murphy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:46:53 +1000
> From: Russ Grayson <pacedge@magna.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Keeping your cool....
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <7310F386-A2C9-11D7-8CFE-000393877EB8@magna.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 07:03 AM, Marsha Hanzi wrote:
> > The late Joe Domingues of the Simple Living network argues that once
> > we have the essentials ( including a few personal luxuries), getting
> > more "stuff" just brings on more confusion. Stuff has to be taken care
> > of. So reducing on consumption actually means getting back more free
> > time-- an interesting tradeoff where time has become the scarecest
> > commodity.
>
> This is so true Marsha. My partner, Fiona, and I have been busy
> enjoying the process of passing on things that we have been given/
> accumulated/ left that we do not use. Other people have uses for them,
> so once free of us the things enjoy another life of usefullness and we
> enjoy less clutter in the garage. We have also pruned our book
> collection, retaining only those volumes useful as reference in our
> work teaching organic gardening and in media and overseas aid, those
> that we particularly like and could read again and those that are
> somehow inspirational. It was good to pass the less-used on to places
> where they may be more-used.
>
> Some years ago, I met a man living in converted a cow bails on a
> property in the Hunter Valley, north of Sydney. His needs were few, so
> were his possessions, and he was happy. There was something satisfying
> about meeting this person. And my friends who lived in similar cow
> bails in the Tweed Valley, then in a converted industrial building -
> the family were happy, their possessions few and the wants modest.
>
> What are 'essentials', of course, varies with the individual. And where
> the essentials constitute more than those of purer mind might regard as
> warranted, then there can be recrimination. Those of interested or
> working in Internet production would, for instance, have more
> electronic stuff than those free of this particular affliction. I find
> the minimum I need for my work in journalism is a kit of cameras, a
> laptop computer + software, desktop for my partner to do layout on plus
> the usual scanners etc, a mobile phone and landline phone/ fax. And a
> notebook and pen, of course. These are essentials without which I
> cannot work. Likewise, we need a car to visit a sick parent who lives
> south of Sydney and to get to meetings etc that would take half-a-day
> to attend by public transport.
>
> In regard to this discussion, check out Clive Hamilton's (Australia
> Institute - a thinktank) new book:
>
> "Growth Fetish" by Clive Hamiltonwww.growthfetish.com/
> This is an excellent new book and goes to the core of our fixation
> with consumerist materialism as the high road to happiness. For
> decades our political leaders and opinion makers have told us that
> higher incomes are the way to a better future. But after decades of
> sustained economic growth we must confront an awful fact: the people
> are still not happy. This fact is the great contradiction of modern
> politics. Growth Fetish argues that, far from being the answer to our
> problems, growth fetishism lies at the heart of our social and
> environmental ills.
>
> ...Russ Grayson
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:09:01 -0500
> From: robert waldrop <rmwj@soonernet.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] the hydrogen argument
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <3EF27ACD.87CC081E@soonernet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Marimike6@cs.com wrote:
> > Where are you moving in West Va? There are two of them, you know. In
> > the north and the east, it's really nice. In the coal country,
> > well....
>
> Oops, sorry about my confused sentencing, but I meant "we" as a nation
> are headed towards destroying whole mountains to get the coal
> underneath, not "we" as in the Waldrop household are moving to West
> Virginia. I am a fourth generation Oklahoman and expect to finish the
> rest of my life here and be buried in the same cemetary as my great
> grandparents.
> >
> > The political situation is strongly polarized. Half the people hate
> > having their state raped and ransacked, and are very vocal about it.
> > After all, whenever you get a hard rain, people die from mudslides.
> > The other half are pretty adamant about keeping a job or two in the
> > state, since there's nothing much going on there besides coal. This
> > has been going on for years. My guess is the average person feels both
> > ways at the same time.
>
> I have only been to West Virginia once, and it was very beautiful. I
> went to visit Karl Hess, who had built an earth sheltered home there.
> >
> > Incidentally, when you rescue a bag of mown lawn grass from the dump,
> > try throwing a handful of it into your rain barrel. It makes the
> > damnedest compost tea you ever saw. I'd like to get it analyzed-- it
> > smells like liquid heaven. Wet grass grows some interesting molds that
> > I haven't seen described in print, but when used as a mulch they seem
> > to do my bushes a lot of good. They also really keep the moisture in.
>
> I will give this a try. Compost tea is not something I have tried yet,
> but it is on the list.
>
> Robert Waldrop, OKc
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:01:32 -0700
> From: Rick Valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Stained urbanite?
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BB174419.5951%bamboogrove@cmug.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> iron sulfate works great on wet concrete, and it will stain hard concrete,
> but fades rather quickly. You can also "age" or "open" the surface with an
> acid (recommendations on which one, anyone?) And you can "seed" moss by
> selecting moss from a similar substrate and making a smoothie with it and
> any or all of the following ingredients- buttermilk, sticky-cooked rice,
> clay, non-chlorinated water. Paint it on the concrete just before moss
> growing season where you are.
>
> Some people warn against heavy metal content of concrete due to inclusion
of
> fly ash in the recipe. I've not seen any analyses.
>
> BTW, breaking slab is a great job for two; one with an 8 lb. sledge and
the
> other, prying up on the unbroken slab. Hit along the line you wish to
break,
> while repeating the mantra: "concrete has high strength in compression,
> concrete has low strength in tension"
>
> rock on,
>
> -Rick
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:31:44 -0500
> From: robert waldrop <rmwj@soonernet.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Keeping your cool....
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <3EF2801F.218874CB@soonernet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> It does get hot here in the summer, July and August temperatures are
> typically in excess of 100 degrees F, although last summer we only hit
> 100 degrees once. Everyone was amazed.
>
> I have posted a little essay I have written on keeping cool in Oklahoma
> to this list serve, which shows the strategies we use for our
> situation: hot during the day, cooler at night (a definite temperature
> differential), sometimes humid, sometimes not humid.
>
> Each year we are more comfortable in the summer than the previous. I
> attribute this to:
>
> 1. Each year we are better at the little details, knowing when to open
> and when to close windows, etc.
>
> 2. Each year the vegetation outside provides more shade to our house.
>
> 3. Each year we make additional structural changes, such as ventilating
> the attic, and working on our super insulation project.
>
> There is a pretty interesting Australian site about passive solar
> heating and cooling, which has suggestions and options for three
> different climates.
> http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/index.htm
>
> It may have some further ideas for you. I hope this helps. I think
> working on developing a cooler summer microclimate around your house is
> one of the best bets, although dowsing yourself and others using a water
> hose is more fun.
>
> Robert Waldrop, OKC
>
> Marsha Hanzi wrote:
> > By the way Robert, I am most interested in your strategies for keeping>
> your house cool, am already gritting my teeth for the cruelly hot>
Brazilian
> dryland sumemrs. Built a little house with a
> > passion-fruit-vine varanda around it to try to create a icro-climate.
> > There is a small factory in Sco Paulo which produces fans with sponges >
> in front of them- they say it reduces the heat by 8 degrees, while >
needing
> the energy only of a fan...What have you done? I imagine it > gets really
> hot in Oklahoma...
> >
> > Marsha
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:42:53 -0700
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Stained urbanite?
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <3EF2BAFD.3050306@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Rick Valley wrote:
> > iron sulfate works great on wet concrete, and it will stain hard
concrete,
> > but fades rather quickly. You can also "age" or "open" the surface with
an
> > acid (recommendations on which one, anyone?)
>
> Muriatic acid which is dilute hydrochloric acid used to clean masonry and
> excess mortar
> from brick/block.
>
>
> --
> L.F.London
> lfl@intrex.net
> http://market-farming.com
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:33:09 -0700
> From: Rick Valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Good Thistle...
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BB17F8B4.59A5%bamboogrove@cmug.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Some Good Characteristics of Canadian Thistle
> heavy bloom, nectar
> breaks up hardpan soil with roots
> rich feed for insects and some 4 leggeds
> makes great compost
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:05:56 -0700
> From: "Michael Murphy" <mmurphy@ctsl.com>
> Subject: RE: [permaculture]Hydrogen, wood, peace, justice
> To: <john@eco-living.net>, "permaculture"
> <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> <E1A188F9DEC0CC4C8C599C33D997D58926FEBA@ntserver1.ctsl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The obvious, democratic, worldwide energy source is sunlight, which can be
> captured as:
> biomass (wood, biodesiel)
> heat (hot water)
> electricity (photovoltaics)
> hydrogen (using electricity)
> In our house, we have a woodstove. We've looked at an outside stove to
heat
> water and the house, and concluded we don't want to create that much free
> carbon (even though we grow way more carbon-fixing trees that we would
ever
> use). On our farm, we have a diesel tractor and are about to trade the
> pickup for a 3/4 ton diesel. These will run fine on biodiesel. I tried
to
> get a diesel outboard for the boat, but they cost $8,000. In the next
boat,
> we're thinking of using a diesel genset to drive a double trolling motor -
> that also would run on biodiesel. (Not just reclaimed french fry oil,
which
> is fine but not scalable, but also on oilseed we can grow).
> We have a solar hot water system waiting to be installed. Very cost
> effective.
> We've had 4600 watts of photovoltaics tied to the grid for about seven
> years. Works great, and even with electric heat we never get an electric
> bill.
> For transportation, though, electricity doesn't work. We have a US
> Electricar AC Chevy S10 pickup that has about a 40 mile range, and a Ford
> Ranger converted to DC electric that has about a 25 mile range. They
> recharge from the grid (our battery) at night, but 40 miles just doesn't
cut
> it. I finally decided to get a Toyotas RAV4 EV, after renting one at LAX
> from Budget. It claims a 125 mile range and actually gets 85 to 90 miles,
> which would handle 80% of our driving. For the other 20%, I figured we
> could rent a car or use a biodesiel truck (which would have to refuel with
> petroleum desiel on the road). But Toyota recently killed the RAV4 EV.
So
> we got a Honda Civic Hybrid and will wait for fuel cells.
> The only long distance, portable, sustainable version of sunlight is going
> to be hydrogen. I think you are going to find hydrogen enthusiasts will
be
> like PC enthusiasts in the 1970s, and hydrogen will follow the PC model of
> distributed power.
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>
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