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  • From: Fiona Campbell <pacedge@magna.com.au>
  • To: john@eco-living.net, permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc:
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: Thanks, and relevance of recent posts
  • Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:35:05 +1000

Message to Bob Howard - it is Russ Grayson here, not Fiona Campbell - I'm just using her computer so her name automatically appears on email headers.

On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 07:50 AM, John Schinnerer wrote:

Aloha Joshua,
Welcome to the non-lurker side of the list.

So far, I have not read one post about PC. What
gives? Can we focus on the reason we are all here?

My comment on your questions is that you've been witnessing the 'culture'
aspect of permaculture in action here.

Permaculture is a microcosm of their wider societies, so people involved in permaculture have a diversity of opinion and are prepared to argue their point of view. Permaculture is much more than growing plants and I agree with John's statement above about the discussion being about the 'culture' side of permaculture. Permaculture cannot ignore what goes on in society and discussion on seemingly off-topic subjects is part of dealing with that.

I find that the discussions on this listserv are useful because the responses to an idea or opinion you put up provide the feedback that allows you to correct mistaken perceptions, to change the way you think about things as you get new information and alternative points of view or to reinforce and perhaps further develop your own attitudes and perceptions. I have found this also to be the case on the Australian region listserv, permaculture-oceania.

As to Bob Howard's provocative style and subject choice in argument, provocation often elicits better responses than other approaches. I use this in my writing because - I'm speaking about Australia here - permaculture has often looked at itself through rosy-coloured glasses rather than taking a more constructively critical point of view. Curiously in this regard, this morning I found a link labeled "for a provocative counterpoint" to a column I write for an online current affairs journal. The article was about ecovillages and the link is on the ABC's (Australia's national broadcaster and online news service) website set up as part of a documentary series on intentional communities. The article, I thought, was not particularly provocative and addressed issues that had first been raised with me by ecovillage residents themselves. I wrote it because I am supportive of ecovillage development - and of all the great work that permaculture people do - and wanted to address issues so that those with the know-how might fix them.

In the permaculture community, it is true that critical (another word for 'analytical' - we are not talking mere criticism) writing is sometimes seen as negativism. But critical commentary in any form - even Bob Howard's - is necessary for any movement to develop - you get nowhere by patting yourself on the back all the time, only through continual improvement.

What I think people get upset at are off-the-cuff responses that take an argumentative tone. But maybe we can simply see them as just initial, mainly emotional responses and as the prelude to a more considered discussion.

...Russ Grayson





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