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  • From: lfl@intrex.net
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] A permaculture Wiki
  • Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 01:11:52 -0700

BK wrote:
Someone recently suggested taking a look at WikiPedia, which I did, and
since then have seen other examples of wiki's in use. Wiki's seem to have
some great attributes (a few problems, but on the whole very interesting).
One feature is that users can add to the content of a wiki, without the
admin having to rewrite pages double check url's etc. Definitions of terms
can easily be reached by novices, and ideas could be fleshed out. I would
LOVE to to have a wiki on ibiblio devoted to permaculture and offshoots and
ideas. And it would be alot easier then one person having to list and define
all the various ideas, examples, terms, people, principles, etc, since
anyone could start a definition wiki which could be expanded upon. Anyone
feel similarly?

Yes. It could become the logical extension of a Permaculture mailing list and permaculture-content-oriented websites, some using server-side includes (SSI, .shtml) to make it even more of a distributed database or encyclopedia. We've talked about creating a permaculture database here
and a WIKI may be an easier way to get the ball rolling, leading eventually to a relational database _and_ an encyclopedia. Entries in the message archives for this list could provide much raw data that could be used in a PC Wiki. I am soon going to put the archives for this list that still exist on our old ibiblio Lyris server into a Mailman-like format, similar to what we have now. I just did this for the NAFEX Yahoo list archives and they can be seen here as an example:
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/NAFEX/message-archives/old/maillist.html
This will provide much easier access to the great information that has flowed here over the years. I have all the older archives from the start of this list will put them with the new material. A list FAQ, which I hope to create, will reference all this, the PC FAQ at ATTRA, other key PC websites and any Wiki we decide to do.

Maybe we could begin by submitting suggestions for important PC resources on the Web for inclusion in the FAQ - this could become part of a PC Wikipedia in which we provide a basic definition of Permaculture with hotlinks to an information heirarchy defining the content of the Wikipedia. This would be a "database" of hyperlinks
to main categories of information describing Permaculture with nested subsets of data. For example: An important practical application of Permaculture is the observation, documentation and replication of known
plant guilds. An entry in the definition of pc in the wikipedia would include one for guilds, a definition of which would include links to
more detailed descriptions of guilds with further links to known examples, speculation on others and proposals for new ones. This could get really interesting as ideas become more refined and entries get edited to reflect those changes.

This free form, non-relational, searchable, text database in the form of an encyclopedia could co-evolve in fascinating ways. We could set rules, if necessary, to define acceptable limits on quality, quantity and focus.

I beleive there ought to be a couple of folks on ibiblio who know how to
upload the php scripts and run a wiki.

Maybe Rich, John and other software people along with experienced Wiki users could recommend the right Wiki software engine for us to use,
for me to ask ibiblio to install for us.
This page lists a bunch of possibilities:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines

I expect this is software that ibiblio should run and offer to all content providers instead of individuals running it in their own
accounts. A look here tells me that there is a lot to fine tuning the configuration of the perl wiki software:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MoreAboutTheServer

Cheers,
BK

PS-On large scale the large scale ag and permaculture discussion, I think
mechinized harvesting inherently needs large amount of uniform product (a
John Deere ain't intellegent enough to pick a tomatoe, then a carrot, an
apple and a sprig of basil in one run). But it seems some enhancements can
be made, call them permaculture, or some other term. Crop inbetween trees
with enough room for harvesting, do more intellegent designs for water use
then a longditchs for water to run along in straight line after straight

line. Curve things with a radius large enough for the tractor to deal with.

With that in mind here's an Agriculture Wiki entry for raised bed gardening with a few comments of mine added:
<><><>
In raised bed gardening, the soil is formed in 3-4 foot (1.0-1.2m) wide beds, which can be of any length. The soil is about 0.5-1 foot (150-300cm) above the surrounding soil, sometimes enclosed by a frame generally made of wood or concrete blocks, and enriched with compost made from leaves and grass clippings. The vegetable plants are spaced in geometric patterns, much closer together than conventional row gardening. The spacing is such that when the vegetables are fully grown, their leaves just barely touch each other, creating a microclimate in which moisture is conserved and weed growth suppressed. Since the gardener does not walk on the raised beds, the soil is not compacted and the roots have an easier time growing. The close plant spacing and the use of compost generally result in higher yields with raised beds in comparison to conventional row gardening.
(LL --->)
Raised beds lend themselves to the development of complex agriculture systems that utilize many of the principles and methods of Permaculture.
They can be used effectively to control erosion and recycle and conserve water and nutrients by building them along contour lines on slopes. This
also makes more space available for intensive crop production. They can be created over large areas with the use of several commonly available
tractor-drawn implements and efficiently maintained, planted and harvested using hand tools.
<><><>

Grow a few thousand chickens and use there manure on your acreage. Grow your
own energy crops to run things. Of course on a large scale you lack the
personal touch a permaculture can have. It seems to me permaculture requires
a more human touch then agribis has, some places are the antithesis of
permaculture, some show some of the principles (wether call pc or not), and
some ARE permaculture. This concludes my 2 cents. :-)


--
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com






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