permaculture

["keller" <ak.and.ak@on-line.de>]

> Whole Earth took a stand against homeopathy a few years back,
> pronouncing as being so intrinsicly foolish in concept that no
> testing to refute it is actually necessary. I don't think that hurt
> homeopathy one iota.

It is indeed stupid and unscientific to think that homeopathy must not be
tested in experiments to be refuted. But it would be just as stupid to think
it does not need proof. I recall reading an article about this in New
Scientist a couple of years ago, as well as articles in other places.
According to theses, double blind studies on a lot of homeopathic
preparations have indeed been done (decades ago) and all of them have shown
that these preparations do not have any effect exceeding a placebo's. This
means that homeopathy has been scientifically refuted long ago.

This is a good example of the unscientific stuff that we have to get rid of!
It is totally irrational to stick to homeopathy when it has been refuted
long ago. One could question if these studies had been methologically sound,
but just to ignore them and go on with the stuff is nonsense. It is a sign
of an unscientific thinking that can only hurt the case of the environmental
movement. Unclear thinking leads to taking the wrong actions, and makes it
easy to attac what one is doing. These studies did not hurt homeopahy a iota
because the people who believe in it will just ignore them and dismiss the
scientific way of thinking in the same line. This leads to irrational
thinking and acting, and that is dangerous.

What we need is to embrace hard science. If something does not work, it does
not work, so lets throw it out. For example, if a comarision of herb spirals
and other forms of herb beds would show advantages of the herb spiral, fine.
If it shows no advantage, fine, why stick to it? The problem is that nobody
seems to be making such experiments. What would be needed here is a real
permaculture research institute where scientifically sound research on the
design is done on the design of productive subsistency systems and methods
and the like.

Andreas
>
> Who that matters doesn't see HortIdeas for what it really is
> (SHALLOW/UNIMAGINATIVE/SELFISH).
>
> Let's not spend our energy trying to be more like these people.
>
> -Allan
>
>
>
> >
> >The problem is, it's hard to find data to refute his claims (I did
> >my best, but to an insider, there may be a faint whiff of the
> >barnyard about some of my reply). We just don't collect data. What
> >do we answer when a farmer asks, "How much more money or produce, or
> >less erosion, will your system get me?" That we just know it works
> >better? Does anyone have any numbers? I've looked at a lot of Pc
> >sites in North America, and I haven't seen one where people are
> >measuring yields.
> >
> >So are we justified in saying that this stuff works? Or is
> >permaculture just for those, as Williams says, "who do not require
> >optimal solutions to pressing agricultural and ecological problems"?
> >
> >If anyone's got any hard numbers, or other reputable data, please
> >share them. If not, it points to a huge lack in permaculture, and we
> >should get busy setting up trials and getting reliable data instead
> >of just banking on Bill's wild claims. Without data, more folks like
> >Williams will erode permaculture's credibility.
> >
> >I've also had inquiries from a researcher who wants yield data from
> >permaculture farms for a thesis. If anyone has these, let me know.
> >
> >Toby
> >_____________________________________________
> >For a look at my new book on ecological gardening,
> >Gaia's Garden: A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture, visit
> >http://www.chelseagreen.com/Garden/GaiasGarden.htm
> >
> >
> >
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