permaculture

[Dianne Forster <dforster@metz.une.edu.au>]

I hope you keep this subject "on list".  I for one am benefitting from the
discourse.  Deanna


At 21:04 22/03/00 PST, Akiva Werbalowsky wrote:
>Scott,
>Your "feisty" post caught me by surprise, as I had no debate with your 
>initial comments. Some words which seemed to irk you were from someone 
>else's post,not mine, and my comment was to the overall discussion.
>
>In response however, I always recommend study of the Design Manual for a 
>foundational understanding of permaculture. Perhaps you didn't realize that 
>I was not joking when I described the Design Manual as a sacred text because 
>I believe that in a good and unencumbered way, and hope to continue 
>absorbing the abundant wisdom therein. This has nothing to do with being 
>slavish or unthinking, as I would hesitate describing anyone who honors the 
>sacred (whatever that means to them).
>
>Additionally, the linguistic device of describing elder males who accomplish 
>great vision as fathers... like in "the fathers of this nation"... works 
>just fine as a term of respect in my estimation as a poetic tool. There's no 
>subtext or anything I need to "get over". Teaching and stewarding a stable, 
>agreed-upon foundation for collaborative practice has been a important 
>traditional role of older men, and also older women, even to the point of a 
>conservatism or orthodoxy to keep younger adepts on focused. I have no 
>complaint with any of your fine posts or your integral role in southwest 
>permaculture.
>
>Mollison clearly invites us all to observe and act ethically in care of the 
>earth. He, himself, models a certain, let's say... confidence...when sharing 
>what he's observed to be true, though some describe that as arrogance. Each 
>of us has the opportunity to share what we've observed as significant and to 
>not disown our experience because it's not initially acknowledged by others. 
>This is, of course, in the spirit and function of permaculture in this 
>rapidly changing social landscape.
>
>I would not ask you to explore spirit or other less easily measured 
>influences (referred to lately as zone 6) in your permaculture curriculum if 
>you'd rather not. In fact it's good to have a place to refer folks looking 
>for straight ahead/principled training free of zone 6 discussions if that's 
>their and your preference. If other people wish to include their personal 
>experience in these areas, I also accept that, and a differnt group will 
>congregate. Of course, their work must have an underpinning in harmony with 
>the permaculure principles if it's to be considered as such. We each have a 
>place in permaculture and the large shifts of sentience pouring forth and 
>over this planet in many ways, this email list as example. I'd be loathe to 
>exclude anyone from the mix if they are aligned with permaculture ethics and 
>want to learn more. There is a great diversity of what people are attracted 
>to, just as pattern would indicate in a vibrant design.
>
>Since you probably have thought about this more than most, what are your 
>recommendations of how to best include participant-driven diversity in 
>permaculture discussion, an active edge this season? I've enjoyed what I've 
>read so far.
>
>Please, if you do have areas of a more personal concern, let's correspond 
>off-list, or at least keep it on-list in a more collegial manner.
>
>Thanks,
>Akiva
>
>
>>From: Scott Pittman <pci@permaculture-inst.org>
>>Since you insist of taking my words out of context for rhetoric's sake I 
>>must correct your seeming lack of comprehension.  I stated that before we 
>>change the themes covered in Bill's book that we should "think carefully".  
>>The thinking part may have been what through you.  I didn't say or even 
>>intimate that we should slavishly follow the "sacred text" but that we 
>>should be careful.  What is it with this "father" thing - get some help and 
>>get over it!
>>
>>It's comforting that you are ahead of Bill and "most people" in your
>>comprehension of permaculture.  I do note your humility in the last 
>>sentence.
>>
>>Your attempt at levity belies your arrogance!
>>
>>Get real!
>>Scott
>
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Dianne Forster
Environmental Engineering
University of New England
Armidale NSW 2350 Australia
phone  02 6773 3110
fax 02 6773 3084